Stop Safely Now (HVBJB): Mach-E Owners Biggest Fear - Facts and Info Thread

[scoopman]

We are seeing people add to this thread at an alarming rate with the issue. Are we still thinking it is < 1% and mostly just folks on this forum experiencing the issue? Seems like it might be a higher number.

It’s gotta be higher with the recall software trigger.

Sponsored

 

[dtbaker61]

Thank you and yes I can see you were moving along at 95mph. I know the recall says its open throttle events and DCFC that are common causes. While that might be true for welding (which I don't believe either) it's a bunch of horse manure when it comes to P0ADA/P0ADE. All the data I have suggests that speed and overtaking vehicles at speed is much more of a trigger.

extended/repeat WOT would raise temps inside HVBJB to the point where insulation on original internal relay coil might melt, short, and fail to close, or slowly open under load, arc, and weld contactors. If coil failed first, contactor would 'fail open'....if failed slowly under heavy load and welded, 'failed-welded'.

extended DCFC charge session would essentially 'pre-heat' the inside of the HVBJB, and heat travels along busbars to all contactors by the way, and then a couple WOT under those conditions could also put internal temps over the top; failing either open or closed.

thats my theory why we are seeing various kinds of failures.

HOPEFULLY the new HVBJB is not only more 'beefy' for lower resistance, and less heat buildup, but also may have better insulation.... too bad it did not add some active cooling as well.

 

[DevSecOps]

extended/repeat WOT would raise temps inside HVBJB to the point where insulation on original internal relay coil might melt, short, and fail to close, or slowly open under load, arc, and weld contactors. If coil failed first, contactor would 'fail open'....if failed slowly under heavy load and welded, 'failed-welded'.

extended DCFC charge session would essentially 'pre-heat' the inside of the HVBJB, and heat travels along busbars to all contactors by the way, and then a couple WOT under those conditions could also put internal temps over the top; failing either open or closed.

thats my theory why we are seeing various kinds of failures.

HOPEFULLY the new HVBJB is not only more 'beefy' for lower resistance, and less heat buildup, but also may have better insulation.... too bad it did not add some active cooling as well.

I understand the logic, but I prefer data over logic. The data suggests that post recall failure has nothing to do with DCFC or open throttle events. I'd say close to 50% of the vehicles with failure have never used DCFC once. 100% of SVS has happened over 50mph.

 

[dtbaker61]

I understand the logic, but I prefer data over logic. The data suggests that post recall failure has nothing to do with DCFC or open throttle events. I'd say close to 50% of the vehicles with failure have never used DCFC once.

post software-only 'recall', or post HVBJB hardware replacement?
Have there BEEN failures of the 'new' HVBJB ?

I'm curious.... where do YOU think the data is pointing as a 'root cause' of the physical failures?

 

[DevSecOps]

post software-only 'recall', or post HVBJB hardware replacement?
Have there BEEN failures of the 'new' HVBJB ?

I'm curious.... where do YOU think the data is pointing as a 'root cause' of the physical failures?

I have only seen one of the new HVBJBs fail, but it was infant death, so likely just a lemon of a part.

SSN failure, which isn't what we were originally talking about, and the data behind that is much harder to get because the car logs the error after it happens not at the moment it happens. Even with hardware failure a good 1/2 of them haven't ever used DCFC. I also know a few people that tried repeated open throttle events to trigger failure and all were unsuccessful.

 

[dtbaker61]

I have only seen one of the new HVBJBs fail, but it was infant death, so likely just a lemon of a part.

SSN failure, which isn't what we were originally talking about, and the data behind that is much harder to get because the car logs the error after it happens not at the moment it happens. Even with hardware failure a good 1/2 of them haven't ever used DCFC. I also know a few people that tried repeated open throttle events to trigger failure and all were unsuccessful.

I'd bet that if you really wanted to force a failure, the way to do it would be to do a long charge session from empty to full (either L2 or L3) , and THEN go run some WOT and... rinse and repeat.

I've seen (on my CarScanner - ODB2 setup) the ACcharger connection sensor report temps of 145-150F at the end of a charge session. I'd bet that if you charged from empty to full the interior temp in the HVBJB would be close to 160F, which gets into the range where normal insulation can start to suffer. A couple WOT on top of that, and who knows what the internal temp of the old contactors would be.

 

[Arjan]

I did DC charge just before we went on the autobahn. So if it is temperature related, we had all the components in place.

 

[mkhuffman]

I did DC charge just before we went on the autobahn. So if it is temperature related, we had all the components in place.

Just curious - is this the first time you have taken it on a a sustained high speed trip?

 

[Arjan]

Just curious - is this the first time you have taken it on a a sustained high speed trip?

Yes the first time i got at speeds above the normal speed limits for a longer time

 

[mkhuffman]

Yes the first time i got at speeds above the normal speed limits for a longer time

I wonder what the failure rate is for German owners who use the autobahn. I bet the failure rate is pretty high.

If feels like high speed driving is causing a lot more failures than WOT driving. I have not done multiple back-to-back WOT runs, so maybe that would kill the HVBJB. But a lot of forum members have had theirs fail by just driving at a sustained, high speed. I have not seen any forum member failures right after WOT driving, but Todd would know better.

I think I need to find a way to kill my HVBJB when I am ready for it to be in the shop for a few weeks. My local dealership has not seen any HVBJB failures yet, so if I take it there, they will be figuring it out on my car. Which might not be bad, because they seem to be a really good repair shop.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I wonder what the failure rate is for German owners who use the autobahn. I bet the failure rate is pretty high.

If feels like high speed driving is causing a lot more failures than WOT driving. I have not done multiple back-to-back WOT runs, so maybe that would kill the HVBJB. But a lot of forum members have had theirs fail by just driving at a sustained, high speed. I have not seen any forum member failures right after WOT driving, but Todd would know better.

I think I need to find a way to kill my HVBJB when I am ready for it to be in the shop for a few weeks. My local dealership has not seen any HVBJB failures yet, so if I take it there, they will be figuring it out on my car. Which might not be bad, because they seem to be a really good repair shop.

In the absence of mountains, driving 100 MPH for about 20 miles should get things VERY toasty. YMMV.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

We are seeing people add to this thread at an alarming rate with the issue. Are we still thinking it is < 1% and mostly just folks on this forum experiencing the issue? Seems like it might be a higher number.

The problem is that the part was under designed for the intended load, so eventually given enough time and load all parts will fail.

 

[markboris]

In the past two months, I've had quite a few friends from out of the country visit and have taken them all over CA including mountain passes up to 9,000 feet. I put over 3,000 miles during this period and was hoping for no failures and so far all has been well. Everyone is gone and I just have a few trips planned myself for October so if I do get a failure, I'm ok with it. If not, in November I'm going to have the board replaced. I have $560 in FordPass reward points and that will go towards the repair.

There are two dealers, both one hour away from me on Todd's map that have a green check but I'm thinking of going with my local dealer that is 7 minutes away. Only issues is, while they do have all the equipment to do it and one EV tech, they've never worked on a Mach-E before. Even though my car will be the guinea pig, I think I'd rather have my car closer to me worked on by a dealer I'm familiar with.

 

[DevSecOps]

In the past two months, I've had quite a few friends from out of the country visit and have taken them all over CA including mountain passes up to 9,000 feet. I put over 3,000 miles during this period and was hoping for no failures and so far all has been well. Everyone is gone and I just have a few trips planned myself for October so if I do get a failure, I'm ok with it. If not, in November I'm going to have the board replaced. I have $560 in FordPass reward points and that will go towards the repair.

There are two dealers, both one hour away from me on Todd's map that have a green check but I'm thinking of going with my local dealer that is 7 minutes away. Only issues is, while they do have all the equipment to do it and one EV tech, they've never worked on a Mach-E before. Even though my car will be the guinea pig, I think I'd rather have my car closer to me worked on by a dealer I'm familiar with.

I think that's a good choice with the dealer. From my understanding of the repair, it's really straight forward. The two tricky parts are the de energizing, which is a process they do in FDRS with the right tools and the pressure testing and refill of the cooling system. Otherwise it's just a bunch of bolts.

But if you do ever need help stranded on one of our back roads or while using a dealership in the valley, give me a call.

 

[markboris]

Anybody find these F-150 Lightning key fobs in stock anywhere yet?

I think that's a good choice with the dealer. From my understanding of the repair, it's really straight forward. The two tricky parts are the de energizing, which is a process they do in FDRS with the right tools and the pressure testing and refill of the cooling system. Otherwise it's just a bunch of bolts.

But if you do ever need help stranded on one of our back roads or while using a dealership in the valley, give me a call.

Thanks Todd, I will and going to my dealer even though they have not worked on a Mach-E before was your idea if I remember last time we talked. ?

Sponsored