EV Charger Risks: Home Charging Installation Risks and Advice [by Munro Live]

[Jimbo]

I am surprised there aren't thermal detection circuits in these outlets or on the EVSE plugs. With the C-Max Energi, they had a problem with melting/overheating plugs on the included 120 charger. Ford released a revised version in a recall after 2015 with a thermal sensor in the plug that would shut down the EVSE if it detected high temps at the plug. How that isn't standard on all EVSEs is the question I have.

Same here. I get why standard 120v outlets/plugs don't have them, but if the receptacle is really the source of the majority of these fires/meltdowns, isn't a thermal sensor a more economical and safer solution than telling everyone they need to buy the 3x more expensive outlet?

Are there any EVSEs that have thermal sensing built in? I'd very much seek that out.

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[PA Bob]

In my experience:

#1 cause for arcing/melting is improper torquing at the 14-50 receptacle, whether it is commercial or cheap won't matter if it is poorly installed

#2 pulling more than 32amps thru a 14-50 receptacle increases risk of melting unless install is perfect, with commercial grad receptacle, and ambient temp is <80F.

#3 improper wire size (less than 6awg for a short run from breaker to receptacle), or using an undersized extension cord (for either 120v or 240v)

#4 letting charger 'hang' from the plug and wiggle out while under load if the cord moves around; much much much better to mount a bracket on the wall, and put charger body in bracket

#5 with chargers having plug-in 'tails' for both 120v and 240v (like our Ford Mobile Chargers) is not pushing the 'tail' connector all the way into the body of the charger.

I asked my electrician and an engineer about this. I have the cheaper Leviton outlet for ranges. They both said to see if the outlet feels warm while charging. If it's not hot, no issue. I checked at 30-60-120 min while my EVSE was set at 40A. The outlet, plug, and cord to the plug only got very slightly warm. On the other hand, I don't want to put my house at risk. It wouldn't cost much to change it.
The engineer said it might be worth moving the circuit breaker to the top of the panel. If it's at the bottom, it exposes the entire bus to the heat.
If I was to change the outlet, is that $50 Bryant outlet sufficient? People on this forum have said that even some Hubble outlets are cheap.
Note: My wife accidentally left the oven broiler on all night and that didn't cause any melting on that range outlet. I guess I got lucky there.

 

[dtbaker61]

I asked my electrician and an engineer about this. I have the cheaper Leviton outlet for ranges. They both said to see if the outlet feels warm while charging. If it's not hot, no issue. I checked at 30-60-120 min while my EVSE was set at 40A. The outlet, plug, and cord to the plug only got very slightly warm. On the other hand, I don't want to put my house at risk. It wouldn't cost much to change it.
The engineer said it might be worth moving the circuit breaker to the top of the panel. If it's at the bottom, it exposes the entire bus to the heat.
If I was to change the outlet, is that $50 Bryant outlet sufficient? People on this forum have said that even some Hubble outlets are cheap.
Note: My wife accidentally left the oven broiler on all night and that didn't cause any melting on that range outlet. I guess I got lucky there.

Your existing outlets sound fine if only slightly warm at 2 hours. I would highly suggest limiting charge current to 32 amps regardless since a full charge might take 5 to 8 hours if you are close to empty

 

[mkhuffman]

I asked my electrician and an engineer about this. I have the cheaper Leviton outlet for ranges. They both said to see if the outlet feels warm while charging. If it's not hot, no issue. I checked at 30-60-120 min while my EVSE was set at 40A. The outlet, plug, and cord to the plug only got very slightly warm. On the other hand, I don't want to put my house at risk. It wouldn't cost much to change it.
The engineer said it might be worth moving the circuit breaker to the top of the panel. If it's at the bottom, it exposes the entire bus to the heat.
If I was to change the outlet, is that $50 Bryant outlet sufficient? People on this forum have said that even some Hubble outlets are cheap.
Note: My wife accidentally left the oven broiler on all night and that didn't cause any melting on that range outlet. I guess I got lucky there.

It sounds like your electrician knows what he is talking about. His advice is good. You should put all your high current loads as close to the main breaker as possible, as he said. And definitely a hot outlet should not be used until it is replaced or repaired (loose wires can cause overheating).

Unless you are doing a lot of plugging and unplugging, I think your outlet is fine. A Bryant should last longer if you are putting a lot of plug/unplug cycles on it, so I would consider upgrading if that is the case.

 

[shelnian]

I asked my electrician and an engineer about this. I have the cheaper Leviton outlet for ranges. They both said to see if the outlet feels warm while charging. If it's not hot, no issue. I checked at 30-60-120 min while my EVSE was set at 40A. The outlet, plug, and cord to the plug only got very slightly warm. On the other hand, I don't want to put my house at risk. It wouldn't cost much to change it.
The engineer said it might be worth moving the circuit breaker to the top of the panel. If it's at the bottom, it exposes the entire bus to the heat.
If I was to change the outlet, is that $50 Bryant outlet sufficient? People on this forum have said that even some Hubble outlets are cheap.
Note: My wife accidentally left the oven broiler on all night and that didn't cause any melting on that range outlet. I guess I got lucky there.

I installed the $50 Bryant outlet from Grainger and don't lose any sleep at night. If you change the outlet, it's best to cut the wires back to the insulation and then cut back insulation per outlet requirements. This help ensure the wires are free of corrosion, carbon deposits, and dirt. Should retorque the breaker wire contacts as well. Note: the Bryant outlet requires a different cover plate then the cheap outlets. Grainger has the correct cover plate.

 

[Mach-e4x]

Very insightful video. I did not see a solid conclusion for reducing the fire hazard of charging at home? Did anyway else? I know he mentioned using the Hubble outlet and having a dedicated charger hardwired into the house but that was it.

No mention of Heat Alarms in garages. My garage is attached to my house.
What are you all using for Heat/smoke detectors in your garage?

 

[cdiv]

No mention of Heat Alarms in garages. My garage is attached to my house.
What are you all using for Heat/smoke detectors in your garage?

I'd suggest whatever heat detector can be interconnected with your existing alarm or smoke detectors. Are you gonna hear a stand-alone detector in your garage from inside the house?

 

[dtbaker61]

Heat in electrical connections is caused by resistance between the contacts. This is what causes failures in the HVBJB as well. This heat is equal to the current squared times the resistance.

exactly

this is why I say limiting your charge to 32amps is 'safer' than 36 or 38 if you are pulling it thru a receptacle regardless of the quality of the receptacle. But even more important if you are not sure of the quality of the receptacle, or the quality of the installation, wire-size used, etc.

 

[LiveWire]

If you really want a safe applications, why use the NEMA outlet in the first place? Per the Munro Live episode, it is best to direct wire the to home EV equipment. I'm going to have the electrician do this when he installs my home equipment along with using THHN wire instead of Romex (higher temp rating and higher current rating). I would think this could end up saving you money on the install as well since you don't need the outlet nor the GFI breaker (although the wire is probably more expensive).

I agree I would install a hardwired unit before I would install a 14-50 but it does make a good 2nd option if you want to be able to move your charging equipment between locations or don't want to keep it in your house if you are planning on moving in the near future.

 

[RVAtom]

No mention of Heat Alarms in garages. My garage is attached to my house.
What are you all using for Heat/smoke detectors in your garage?

I haven't figured out a solution to this yet. If my wife didn't drive an ICE vehicle, I would put another Nest Protect out there. It sure would be nice if they made one without the Carbon Monoxide sensor. The nice thing about the Nest ones is they create a wireless mesh interconnecting them, so you could add one where there isn't already hard wired connections between detectors. I thought about this a lot while Chevy Bolt's were self immolating a lot there.

 

[Mach-e4x]

I haven't figured out a solution to this yet. If my wife didn't drive an ICE vehicle, I would put another Nest Protect out there. It sure would be nice if they made one without the Carbon Monoxide sensor. The nice thing about the Nest ones is they create a wireless mesh interconnecting them, so you could add one where there isn't already hard wired connections between detectors. I thought about this a lot while Chevy Bolt's were self immolating a lot there.

I found a Heat Alarm Rate-of-Rise AC powered with battery back up from First Alert.
I just installed one close to the panel box and my Grizzle EVSE, it's a Heat Alarm only and can Latch to others, good to -10 degreesF.

 

[kennethjk]

I asked my electrician and an engineer about this. I have the cheaper Leviton outlet for ranges. They both said to see if the outlet feels warm while charging. If it's not hot, no issue. I checked at 30-60-120 min while my EVSE was set at 40A. The outlet, plug, and cord to the plug only got very slightly warm. On the other hand, I don't want to put my house at risk. It wouldn't cost much to change it.
The engineer said it might be worth moving the circuit breaker to the top of the panel. If it's at the bottom, it exposes the entire bus to the heat.
If I was to change the outlet, is that $50 Bryant outlet sufficient? People on this forum have said that even some Hubble outlets are cheap.
Note: My wife accidentally left the oven broiler on all night and that didn't cause any melting on that range outlet. I guess I got lucky there.

As an FYI I saw the Hubbel on Amazon for $79 today. It was 99 a few weeks ago

 

[EELinneman]

No mention of Heat Alarms in garages. My garage is attached to my house.
What are you all using for Heat/smoke detectors in your garage?

Good question. After talking to an electrician friend, I installed one of these over my MME in the Garage. Helps me feel confident that I am going to be notified if there is a thermal event.

https://www.amazon.com/Kidde-HD135F...jIuOTUifQ==&sprefix=heat+alarm,aps,766&sr=8-3

 

[Mrn]

...and this...

https://www.thedrive.com/maintenance-repair/39173/dielectric-grease

To inhibit corrosion damage on your electrical connections.

 

[J5hort]

I'd be curious of what type of wire (Al or Cu) was used and proper gauge of wire used on some of the trouble cases. People tend to skimp on the wire as it is the most expensive piece and do not account for the resistance with a smaller wire on a longer run.

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