FORD PRO CEO SAYS LFP BATTERIES WILL BE 10 PERCENT CHEAPER

[SWO]

The question then becomes, does Ford adjust the charging curve so that the LFP battery charges quicker, making it worthwhile for someone to stay at a charging station to hit close to 100% SOC.

My understanding is that DCFC speeds are reduced when approaching full charge regardless of battery chemistry with current technology.

If they go to LFP and don't increase the capacity, it's going to make the SR Mach-E's pretty difficult to live with on trips in the winter.

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[Guss-E 2021]

@Jimrpa I found the following during a quick search and it lines up with what I've heard on Undecided and Two Bit Da Vinci:

Lithium Ion
Lithium ion batteries have one of the highest energy density among any battery types. These batteries provide an energy density of about 100 Wh/kg to 265 Wh/kg.

LiFePO4
The energy density of an LFP battery is slightly lower than a lithium-ion battery. Their energy density falls between 90-165 Wh/kg

That should at least give you a relative comparison if not a real world one.

 

[hayhayday]

I picked up some suposedly Tesla reject cells for solar storage: Gangfeng 280ah ev grade cells 162wh/kw 71x173x204mm ~5.4kg. Rated capacity is 896whr but my rejects all test above that so ev grade density might be closer to 200 wh/kg

 

[Jimrpa]

@Jimrpa I found the following during a quick search and it lines up with what I've heard on Undecided and Two Bit Da Vinci:

Lithium Ion
Lithium ion batteries have one of the highest energy density among any battery types. These batteries provide an energy density of about 100 Wh/kg to 265 Wh/kg.

LiFePO4
The energy density of an LFP battery is slightly lower than a lithium-ion battery. Their energy density falls between 90-165 Wh/kg

That should at least give you a relative comparison if not a real world one.

How about volume?

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

@Jimrpa I found the following during a quick search and it lines up with what I've heard on Undecided and Two Bit Da Vinci:

Lithium Ion
Lithium ion batteries have one of the highest energy density among any battery types. These batteries provide an energy density of about 100 Wh/kg to 265 Wh/kg.

LiFePO4
The energy density of an LFP battery is slightly lower than a lithium-ion battery. Their energy density falls between 90-165 Wh/kg

That should at least give you a relative comparison if not a real world one.

@Jimrpa so while the LFP-battery Mach E's will not have the range of their Li cousins, they will have a working Frunk button. ?

 

[Guss-E 2021]

How about volume?

That particular source of info did not address volumetric differences between LFP and Li-Ion battery packs. Given the lower energy density of LFP, that would be useful info for certain.

 

[dbsb3233]

It sounds like they’ll put the same size battery (by weight) in the SR and it will have a lower range.

Or I wonder if they'll use the ER pack and fill it with LFP cells to produce about the same SR range?

 

[HuntingPudel]

@Jimrpa so while the LFP-battery Mach E's will not have the range of their Li cousins, they will have a working Frunk button. ?

Unless the car gets registered to Jim’s account. They still have that exclusion code in the FP servers. ??

 

[AKgrampy]

Agreed
Small changes in weight will mean slightly less range but 100% charge capability and chemistry that uses less scarce materials is a good tradeoff IMO.

I am interested to see how the the LFP batteries react to colder temperatures. I have heard they are affected more by the cold but plenty of Teslas in cold climates so perhaps not an issue. Maybe Ford will enhance their heating system a bit.

 

[roamtheworld]

I am interested to see how the the LFP batteries react to colder temperatures. I have heard they are affected more by the cold but plenty of Teslas in cold climates so perhaps not an issue. Maybe Ford will enhance their heating system a bit.

Look for videos and stories featuring Bjørn Nyland also studies in Norway (motor.no requires translation) prove LFP versions of Tesla have shorter winter range. Not as much as you would think but it has an impact.

 

[MellowJohnny]

<SNIP>

If they go to LFP and don't increase the capacity, it's going to make the SR Mach-E's pretty difficult to live with on trips in the winter.

*Worse* than it is now? Oy...

But like @dbsb3233 said, maybe the new SR will simply have more cells...

Interesting to see where this all nets out.

 

[AKgrampy]

Unless the car gets registered to Jim’s account. They still have that exclusion code in the FP servers. ??

The frunk will be filled with LFP batteries.

 

[Blue highway]

*Worse* than it is now? Oy...

But like @dbsb3233 said, maybe the new SR will simply have more cells...

Interesting to see where this all nets out.

yes worse in the cold than NMC, but add a heat pump, and more effective preconditioning when plugged in at home and it can be largely mitigated.

 

[mkhuffman]

yes this.... ^^^

For the masses, The future is more charging stations, not longer range EVs.... because of lower cost and more idiot proof chemistry.

I don't agree at all.

The answer is longer range cars and more destination chargers. If I can go 600 miles between charges, I can go just about anywhere without a DCFC stop. Personally I am on the verge of hating every DCFC stop I make, not because it takes 20 minutes, but because of charger congestion and other problems that makes it take an hour.

An hour stop to refuel is totally unacceptable and no normal person (I am speaking of ICE drivers) will tolerate it. I won't, even though I am not normal and I am an early adopter.

 

[Blue highway]

I don't agree at all.

The answer is longer range cars and more destination chargers. If I can go 600 miles between charges, I can go just about anywhere without a DCFC stop. Personally I am on the verge of hating every DCFC stop I make, not because it takes 20 minutes, but because of charger congestion and other problems that makes it take an hour.

An hour stop to refuel is totally unacceptable and no normal person (I am speaking of ICE drivers) will tolerate it. I won't, even though I am not normal and I am an early adopter.

• Charge stops are 30 minutes, not an hour...
• batteries are really heavy... big... and expensive... and that isn't changing real fast.
• if you want a car with 0-60 in 20 seconds, weighs 6000 lbs and handles poorly... for 25K more than your MME cost then sure 600 miles is for you!

The answer is lots more charging locations.

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