New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed

[MME2000]

LFP batteries will last 3x-5x more cycles than NMC/NCA.

The sheer number of 2012-2014 Model S battery failures should hint to people that 8-10 years is about the expected lifetime of NMC/NCA batteries and not much more.

This is exactly why I want LFP, the car will hold its value longer and I like my car to last at least 12 years

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[devmach-e]

LFP batteries will last 3x-5x more cycles than NMC/NCA.

The sheer number of 2012-2014 Model S battery failures should hint to people that 8-10 years is about the expected lifetime of NMC/NCA batteries and not much more.

Do you have an actual figure for the number of replacements? And something that details why the battery was replaced (catastrophic failure, capacity degradation), how many miles it was replaced at, percentage of replacements to cars produced? That sort of detail would be helpful.

 

[ctenidae]

This feels like such a huge step backwards. Why is this being promoted as a good thing?

Because it's the thing they have to promote.

 

[ArthurDOB]

So, basically what this is saying is that these new batteries are useless in Minnesota as the temps this winter have been as low as -28f air temp with -50f real feal. Very interesting.

I don't know that it's saying that. People here are, but aren't there already Teslas here with LFP batteries? I never heard anyone say that they were useless in winter. It's not conceivable that Ford engineers haven't considered this. Perhaps this has been addressed in the capacity growth at the factory in Mexico.

BTW: Wind chill only affects the speed of heat loss. The actual battery temp cannot go below the ambient temperature, regardless of wind chill.

 

[roamtheworld]

I'm sure we will see the improvements that CATL started making last year in these batteries.
https://www.electrive.com/2022/06/23/catl-to-begin-manufacturing-third-gen-batteries-in-2023/
The battery, named Qilin, sets a new record for volume-based usage efficiency at over 72 per cent, says CATL. That is, 72 per cent of the ready-to-install battery pack is filled with cells. When CATL introduced the first generation of cell-to-pack (CtP) technology in 2019, the volume usage efficiency was 50 per cent.

CATL also gives specific energy densities: Energy density increases to 255 Wh/kg with NCM cells and 160 Wh/kg with LFP cells with the new generation. In the current announcement, CATL does not mention the volumetric energy density. When the announcement was made in March, it was still said that 290 Wh/l were possible with LFP cells and 450 Wh/l with NCM cells.

 

[bncwhite]

This seems comparable to the performance of E-10 gas vs 100% gas - lower efficiency, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Do you have an actual figure for the number of replacements? And something that details why the battery was replaced (catastrophic failure, capacity degradation), how many miles it was replaced at, percentage of replacements to cars produced? That sort of detail would be helpful.

I'm not in any way a fan of Tesla, but the vast majority of Teslas have seen minimal battery degradation (<10% loss after 150k+ miles), even 10 years on. There are loud forum members on various forums who proclaim all the batteries are failing, but 10% loss of maximum capacity is in the noise of daily driving.

 

[Phil Martin]

I'm not in any way a fan of Tesla, but the vast majority of Teslas have seen minimal battery degradation (<10% loss after 150k+ miles), even 10 years on. There are loud forum members on various forums who proclaim all the batteries are failing, but 10% loss of maximum capacity is in the noise of daily driving.

Agree
I'm not a Tesla fanboy either but i would want to see papers to back up the failure claim.

Our three year old plug in hybrid has over 120K miles on it from lots everyday driving. The battery gets depleted at least twice per day everyday. Charged back to 100, so lots of deep cycle depletion and charging. My point is the the battery gets put through the wringer and it has only lost about 10% capacity.

I think using lfp is more about sourcing the materials.

 

[mkhuffman]

Agree
I'm not a Tesla fanboy either but i would want to see papers to back up the failure claim.

Our three year old plug in hybrid has over 120K miles on it from lots everyday driving. The battery gets depleted at least twice per day everyday. Charged back to 100, so lots of deep cycle depletion and charging. My point is the the battery gets put through the wringer and it has only lost about 10% capacity.

I think using lfp is more about sourcing the materials.

My battery is 1.5 years old and is now at 92% SoH. I suspect it will level out, but crap. It is frustrating to see it go down so quickly.

 

[Blue highway]

I dunno, we seem to get a fair share of ‘I charge to 100% every day, it always used to say I have 280 miles of range, now it says I have 220 miles in December, how am I supposed to do my 20 mile commute now, worst car ever’ type of posts on here.

I also think at these subzero temperatures that seem to be a concern, a heat pump will not do much.
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But do we really expect Ford to lower the price of the Mach-Es because of this? People keep saying cheaper, but how much cheaper, and will Ford actually lower prices or keep it the same? They've already mentioned they're losing money on each Mach-E.

Unless they change some things, this just seems like a way for them to get more money while not really adding any benefits? In fact, seems like a step backwards. Worse in cold, slower performance, relatively same pack size (maybe they change charge speed?).

here are some reasons EV makers are switching to LFP batteries.
https://www.engineering.com/story/why-ev-manufacturers-are-switching-from-nmc-to-lfp-batteries

Retained capacity over time is a big deal...

 

[Blue highway]

My battery is 1.5 years old and is now at 92% SoH. I suspect it will level out, but crap. It is frustrating to see it go down so quickly.

How is it that one sees the SOH?

 

[Xadion]

Sounds like all that to say what the ford ven diagram thing actually said, surprising they were fairly accurate haha

 

[itsthenewdc]

here are some reasons EV makers are switching to LFP batteries.
https://www.engineering.com/story/why-ev-manufacturers-are-switching-from-nmc-to-lfp-batteries

Retained capacity over time is a big deal...

I guess that’s great for the used car market but by the time I’d reach 1000 or 2000+ cycles I personally probably wouldn’t have my vehicle anymore. As great as it is to have a vehicle that can update, being a tech person I’m also aware that every few years or so there’s going to be a major upgrade somewhere that doesn’t apply to older vehicles and I’ll want to have a newer vehicle for that tech and the fact that it’s newer and most likely more reliable (from the perspective of new vs old).

 

[mkhuffman]

How is it that one sees the SOH?

OBDII scanner and the CarScanner app.
I use this scanner because it has a button to establish a new Bluetooth connection. Most scanners have an open Bluetooth connection that potentially allows anyone to connect to your car. https://www.ebay.com/itm/185361506365

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