EPA estimate rework for EVs proposed

[DevSecOps]

I think we all know that EV EPA freeway numbers, especially for Tesla and some Ford trims are stupidly unrealistic.

One of the most annoying (yet valid), recurring topics on this forum are the first time buyers who come here wondering why they aren't getting the range that the sticker shows.

I welcome the proposal to show both highway and city range for EVs. It would be nice if they took it a step further and also showed a temperature curve illustrating a percentage decrease.

Here's the article by Car & Driver:

EVs Fall Short of EPA Estimates by a Much Larger Margin Than Gas Cars in Our Real-World Highway Testing

Example of range on a GTPE (different trims seem to perform better)
Car and Driver: 220mi (cited)
EPA: 260mi

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[Pushrods&Capacitors]

I think we all know that EV EPA numbers, especially for Tesla and Ford are stupidly unrealistic.

One of the most annoying, recurring topics on this forum are the first time buyers who come here wondering why they aren't getting the range that the sticker shows.

I welcome the proposal to show both highway and city range for EVs. It would be nice if they took it a step further and also showed a temperature curve illustrating a percentage decrease.

Here's the article by Car & Driver:

EVs Fall Short of EPA Estimates by a Much Larger Margin Than Gas Cars in Our Real-World Highway Testing

I saw this article last week. Car and Driver has a decent “worst case” test because running a 75mph continuous highway loop is going to be tougher than prob 60-70% of use cases. The fact that the 4X did 250 miles on a 270 EPA rating is actually very impressive imo.

 

[DevSecOps]

I saw this article last week. Car and Driver has a decent “worst case” test because running a 75mph continuous highway loop is going to be tougher than prob 60-70% of use cases. The fact that the 4X did 250 miles on a 270 EPA rating is actually very impressive imo.

See, I feel like the range problem with EVs is purely highway range. I don't think anyone cares what range is like in the city. It's kinda pointless in the city where you charge when you're home. So, I think the C&D constant higher speed test is more in line with everyday user expectations.

The fact that the EPA number comes from only 45% freeway driving when people are reliant on this number on the freeway, is hard to swallow. Breaking them into highway/city, I think, is a welcome change.

 

[AZBill]

Even the current EPA "highway" test is at an average speed of 48mph, not realistic at all.

 

[Scorpy2643]

25,000 miles later, I don’t think my range numbers vs the EPA estimates are bad. I get 270 reliably at 70 unless it’s cold as heck.

 

[SWO]

Seems like it would make more sense to do a Winter/Summer [combined] rating vs. Highway/City.

 

[Scooby24]

I think we all know that EV EPA numbers, especially for Tesla and Ford are stupidly unrealistic.

One of the most annoying (yet valid), recurring topics on this forum are the first time buyers who come here wondering why they aren't getting the range that the sticker shows.

I welcome the proposal to show both highway and city range for EVs. It would be nice if they took it a step further and also showed a temperature curve illustrating a percentage decrease.

Here's the article by Car & Driver:

EVs Fall Short of EPA Estimates by a Much Larger Margin Than Gas Cars in Our Real-World Highway Testing

YES. This would really force the OEMs to put an emphasis on figuring out the best way to provide efficient heating with minimizing range impact.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Seems like it would make more sense to do a Winter/Summer [combined] rating vs. Highway/City.

Yeah, but our winter range in CenTX can’t be compared to folks in International Falls, MN. And there’s the problem. If they start trying to get fancy and do a % range drop for given ambient temps then it becomes a shitshow of low numbers for the below 30F folks.

 

[Mirak]

They ought to do some sort of basic 2x3 grid for temp versus speed

	0-40mph	65-75mph
30 deg
60 deg
90 deg

That would give people a much better estimate. And the low and high temps should include appropriate HVAC to maintain cabin at 68.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

After 18,000 miles, a good chunk of which have been highway, I can say the overall range from the EPA is just about spot on---if not a little low---for my pure highway range. I can easily get 320-340 miles on a 65 mph highway. I can get 300-320 miles on a 75 mph highway.

 

[SWO]

Yeah, but our winter range in CenTX can’t be compared to folks in International Falls, MN. And there’s the problem. If they start trying to get fancy and do a % range drop for given ambient temps then it becomes a shitshow of low numbers for the below 30F folks.

Sure, but highway driving in Montana is also different than LA.

We don't really get questions on this forum asking "hey why did my range suck on this highway trip?", but the forum is inundated with questions when it starts to get cold out.

 

[RickMachE]

I'd like to see a statement like the following:

The above range information is at ideal temperatures of 75 degrees. Please note that driving in winter, or extreme heat, will impact range, noticeably.

 

[DevSecOps]

After 18,000 miles, a good chunk of which have been highway, I can say the overall range from the EPA is just about spot on---if not a little low---for my pure highway range. I can easily get 320-340 miles on a 65 mph highway. I can get 300-320 miles on a 75 mph highway.

Some trims are more accurate than others for sure. I have 40k on my car in 18 months, 2 of which it's been inoperable for, and almost all of it is highway driving. I know VERY well how much range I can get and with a GTPE it's about 180 in the winter and 220 in the summer (80mph Highway speed). EPA is 260. 80 miles under EPA in the winter is not cool. In Central CA, winter isn't really "winter" either.

I'd like to see a statement like the following:

The above range information is at ideal temperatures of 75 degrees. Please note that driving in winter, or extreme heat, will impact range, noticeably.

This is already stated in disclaimers for most EV manufacturers. Ford has a disclaimer on the site about range as well. Specifically: "Actual range varies with conditions such as external environment, vehicle use, vehicle maintenance, lithium-ion battery age and state of health."

 

[Logal727]

These cars are perfect on range in Florida, which seems to be an outlier. No elevation, just the right temperature.

 

[Its_my_wifes_car]

Last week I was curious so I ran numbers on our Mach-E from the trip logs and over the past month we are getting 293 miles out of the extended range battery AS AN AVERAGE. Warmer weather helps. I calculated this via a spreadsheet using the miles driven and kWh usage for the past month or so..... I was surprised. I see our smaller (slower) local and in-town trips really get good "mileage" and balance out the higher highway speeds which kill the range....

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