EPA estimate rework for EVs proposed

[DevSecOps]

Lsst week I was curious so I ran numbers on our Mach-E from the trip logs and over the past month we are getting 293 miles out of the extended range battery AS AN AVERAGE. Warmer weather helps. I calculated this via spreadsheet using the miles driven and kWh usage for the past month or so..... I was surprised. I see our smaller (slower) local and in-town trips really get good "mileage" and balance out the higher highway speeds which kill the range....

That's the whole point about breaking the two numbers up.

Who cares what you get around town? In an ice vehicle it matters because it's associated with the cost of gas. With an EV we associate range with how far we can get, not how much it will cost. Around town doesn't mater to 99% of EV owners because they will never use more than a full charge driving around town.

In an EV range only matters on highway travel. How often and where to stop are vitally important to the success of a road trip.

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[SWO]

After 18,000 miles, a good chunk of which have been highway, I can say the overall range from the EPA is just about spot on---if not a little low---for my pure highway range. I can easily get 320-340 miles on a 65 mph highway. I can get 300-320 miles on a 75 mph highway.

The problem is that the EPA lets manufacturers pick from several methods...and then handicap their numbers if they want to.. That's why Tesla numbers are way too optimistic while (for example) Porsche numbers are very conservative.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The problem is that the EPA lets manufacturers pick from several methods...and then handicap their numbers if they want to.. That's why Tesla numbers are way too optimistic while (for example) Porsche numbers are very conservative.

That's a major problem, I agree.
There should only be one method.
Even so, manufacturers have always found ways to make the tests come out in their favor...

I don't think the current method is all that bad, but sure, raise the average speed for the highway test, though not all the way to 75 mph. Unless I'm speeding on the highway, my average speed for highway driving is closer to 60 mph than 75 mph. Instead, do a real test of leaving home, getting to the highway, getting off the highway and to a charger, etc.

 

[DevSecOps]

...raise the average speed for the highway test, though not all the way to 75 mph. Unless I'm speeding on the highway, my average speed for highway driving is closer to 60 mph than 75 mph.

I can't agree... You're in AZ where rural speed limits are 75 and you know damn well that anything under 80 will probably get you passed by Semis.

Driving 60mph on California Freeways is getting pretty close to the equivalent of a death trap.

Why should the EPA give us a number that is under what the speed limits are in most states? That's just another way to "lie". If they gave us 25mph EPA and a 80mph EPA you should be able to realize that at 60mph you'll get something in the middle. Giving a number too low doesn't help guess what it will be over that number, which is exactly the predicament we're in now.

 

[Logal727]

That's a major problem, I agree.
There should only be one method.
Even so, manufacturers have always found ways to make the tests come out in their favor...

I don't think the current method is all that bad, but sure, raise the average speed for the highway test, though not all the way to 75 mph. Unless I'm speeding on the highway, my average speed for highway driving is closer to 60 mph than 75 mph. Instead, do a real test of leaving home, getting to the highway, getting off the highway and to a charger, etc.

There's always the VW method ?

 

[RickMachE]

This is already stated in disclaimers for most EV manufacturers. Ford has a disclaimer on the site about range as well. Specifically: "Actual range varies with conditions such as external environment, vehicle use, vehicle maintenance, lithium-ion battery age and state of health."

Totally inadequate for the masses, who are too lazy/stupid to look. If you're going to print range information, right next to / below it, in bold, give the caveats.

 

[the golden eel]

Totally inadequate for the masses, who are too lazy/stupid to look. If you're going to print range information, right next to / below it, in bold, give the caveats.

While I agree entirely with the topic of this thread that there needs to be a better way to show an EV's range in regard to the EPA estimate... and I'm also someone that was well informed of what the benefits and limitations of EV's were prior to my purchase...


It needs to be said that just because someone doesn't look at/research/read everything that you do, or do not have the same priorities as you... it doesn't make them lazy or stupid.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I can't agree... You're in AZ where rural speed limits are 75 and you know damn well that anything under 80 will probably get you passed by Semis.

Driving 60mph on California Freeways is getting pretty close to the equivalent of a death trap.

/shrug

Most of my freeway driving (about 8k-10k miles) has been between AZ and the LA valley, on AZ and CA interstates (I-40, I-15, I-10).

I do ~73 mph on the freeway (unless I'm passing) and I am very rarely passed by semis.

My average "highway" speed from charger to charger is not my highway speed; it's closer to about 65 mph, based on actual measurements.

 

[moparguy]

I do higher than average people on the highway, the best mode for my range is engage with one pedal disabled, I love unbridled but even with 1P disabled it still breaks harder than engage.

 

[superdave80]

I think we all know that EV EPA numbers, especially for Tesla and Ford are stupidly unrealistic.

Do we actually know that? I've usually beaten the EPA range.

 

[superdave80]

Car and Driver: 220mi (cited)
EPA: 260mi

Car and Driver test: " We run all our tests at a GPS-verified 75 mph "

I'm just shocked that they didn't get EPA range at that speed.

 

[DevSecOps]

Car and Driver test: " We run all our tests at a GPS-verified 75 mph "

I'm just shocked that they didn't get EPA range at that speed.

Wait, you mean they traveled a speed slower than most people drive I-5 at? Shocked you can't figure out why some of us think it's a good idea to have highway EPA vs In Town.

And yes, we do know that Ford's EPA rating on some of the higher end trims, such as the GT and GTPE is wildly inaccurate. I have NEVER got within 40 miles of the EPA estimate.

 

[superdave80]

Driving 60mph on California Freeways is getting pretty close to the equivalent of a death trap.

...and yet I do it every day (65 MPH speed limit, three-lane highway) and have lived to tell about it. Hell, I actually pass a lot of cars at this speed.

I hate when people act like you are forced to speed to stay alive. Just admit you like getting to your destination faster, so you go faster.

 

[DevSecOps]

I hate when people act like you are forced to speed to stay alive. Just admit you like getting to your destination faster, so you go faster.

Triggered much? Yeah I'm the idiot who will cut you off going 60 in a 70 and blow you a kiss while I'm at it, deal with it.

I'm not sure what your issue is, but this thread is about breaking out the EPA estimate into two parts based on a study that found that EPA estimates for EVs are inaccurate. If you have such a big issue with it then conduct your own study, publish it and stop complaining. Geesh.

 

[AhardFSU]

I have a 2022 Select SR RWD and I easily hit and always surpass the EPA combined numbers when I'm doing local driving, which shouldn't be too hard for most EVs to do. Unless those EVs used the 5 cycle EPA test, which is the one that Tesla and Volvo/Polestar uses, according to Insideevs.

I think that the EPA adding a separate highway number is the right way to go.

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