GM Adopts Tesla NACS like Ford!

[Kamuelaflyer]

The Tesla supercharger system will be the dominant one. Mark these words.

Of course they will. For now. But they won’t be a monopoly.

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[rpr]

aside from the fact that it didn't lock, i never had strong feelings against J1772

but CCS1 is one of the worst designs i have ever experienced. i have always asked the question (on this forum in fact) why CCS1 is so big and heavy when it is delivering THE SAME AMOUNT OF POWER as NACS. it's almost mind boggling it can be that much worse. it's as if someone already invented the round wheel and you're still making square ones.

i have no love for musk nor tesla but good riddance to CCS1

I won't claim to be 100% knowledgeable, but my understanding is that the CCS standard is designed to do more, particularly to allow "bi-directional" use. I'm sure hoping that, in the not-too-distant future, I can use my EV battery as a home backup during outages. And there's lots of talk about using "crowd-sourcing" of EV battery capacity to smooth out grid supply and demand as more renewables come online. (I read that California will require bi-directionality in the future.)

Europe is ahead of N.America on this stuff. and they use CCS (though version 2 rather than 1). I sure hope Ford/GM/Tesla have a plan in place to provide bi-directionality without yet another plug variation.

Anyone know more about this than I do?

 

[Electric Goat]

Yay! ...and just like that, CCS is dead. ?

Everyone else, especially japanese automakers are asleep at the wheel right now.

Holy F**k this is exciting. The three most innovative automakers all just kicked everyone else right in the nuts. ??

 

[locks66]

I won't claim to be 100% knowledgeable, but my understanding is that the CCS standard is designed to do more, particularly to allow "bi-directional" use. I'm sure hoping that, in the not-too-distant future, I can use my EV battery as a home backup during outages. And there's lots of talk about using "crowd-sourcing" of EV battery capacity to smooth out grid supply and demand as more renewables come online. (I read that California will require bi-directionality in the future.)

Europe is ahead of N.America on this stuff. and they use CCS (though version 2 rather than 1). I sure hope Ford/GM/Tesla have a plan in place to provide bi-directionality without yet another plug variation.

Anyone know more about this than I do?

Tesla has said 2025 for Bi-directional charging. My understanding based on their comments is it's the car that's the issue, not the plug.

Ford advertised the hell out of a lightning being able to power a home. Ain't no way they are going to abandon that.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/te...coming-by-2025-but-musk-says-its-inconvenient

 

[Scooby24]

Well this can't be good for resale.

 

[Phil Martin]

I wrote a while ago that something like this needs to happen. A consortium of closed charging networks will work much better than an open standard. CCS had such a terrible debut. The next step is the government needs to capitulate and accept the Tesla standard.

This just proves how bad the CCS rollout is.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I wonder what all those people who refuse to buy a vehicle with NACS will do now??? Other than cry a bit more...

It’s the Interweb warriors. 99.9% are all talk no action. They’ll enrich Elon without a second though when off the forum.

 

[Holy Driver]

Looks like the beginning of the end for CCS in North America.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/08/gm-tesla-partner-on-ev-charging-network.html

Does it make sense?
For the EU CCS is the official standard for the connector.
When they end CCS in US the manufactures have to produce cars with different connectors.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

When they end CCS in US the manufactures have to produce cars with different connectors

it hasn’t been an issue for either Tesla or Ford to produce multiple connector versions of their cars to date, including the CCS-2 that the EU and Euro Zone use, or China’s connector either. It’s a non issue.

 

[bp99]

It’s the Interweb warriors. 99.9% are all talk no action. They’ll enrich Elon without a second though when off the forum.

I doubt charging is much of a profit source. It's not high enough volume for the margins. The best scenario is that the Super Charger network self funds maintenance and expansion.

Does it make sense?
For the EU CCS is the official standard for the connector.
When they end CCS in US the manufactures have to produce cars with different connectors.

CCS1 vs. CCS2. They're already not compatible between Europe and the US. It's a global standard only in family, not in implementation.

Let's see if they lower their kWh pricing, there may be eventual pushback from the public since their prices are 10-15 cents higher than others, making it more expensive than an equivalent tank of gas.

Gas is high volume, low margins. EV charging is low volume and requires higher margins. Charging at home is where the cost savings come vs. gas. You'll likely never see savings at high speed stations. There will be the free ones that will most likely remain at 50K max which exist as a loss leader to lure customers in to other businesses.

Tesla's rates being higher than the others might help explain the difference between being reliable and not. You need the higher margins just to fund the stations before profit even comes in to play.

 

[SWO]

I guess I'll be the contrarian here and say I don't think the Tesla connector takeover is a sure thing.

1. The network is still closed. They aren't going to open it to everyone while some automakers are (presumably, I'd love to know the details) paying them money for access.

2. NEVI specifies CCS. It has the government backing and I don't think government can fund Tesla connectors without changing the legislation. That is not going to happen because Democrats hate Musk and Republicans don't want taxpayers subsidizing EVs at all. With Congress divided, any new legislation is DOA.

3. None of this gets implemented for 3 quarters. A lot can change in that time...especially with Tesla.

4. Frankly, I dont think Ford or GM want CCS to go away and leave them beholden to a competitor's private network. I think they need to be able to fall back on CCS.

As an aside, If CCS whithers while Tesla remains a closed network, that will be awful for orphaned makes which don't/can't get access.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Lectron is probably tripping over itself getting all its adaptors ready. It will be USB to USB-C all over again. I hate fighting with anything I have to plug in so I'm okay with this. Oh and GM is still dumping Carplay and AA while Ford has no intention of doing so. Let's not forget that.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Retrofitting will take a lot of time.

I was thinking about new CCS ones that are supposed to be built with fed money. They will have to decide what connectors to use or use both. This should set back building new stations as they figure this out.

Even as it sets back new stations, it opens up "old" ones (Superchargers) which were not previous part of the BOCN. Likely a bit of a wash. Open Plugshare and change your filter to include Tesla/NACS. I'm sure that changes things on a long drive.

 

[Jimrpa]

The report of my death is an exaggeration.
- Mark Twain.

Ford isn’t necessarily committed to NCAS after 2025. If it falls flat on its face they could very well change their minds. Is that the most likely scenario ? No, of course not. Plus, CP, Shell Recharge, EVgo and the rest could switch to NCAS systems presuming they’re genuinely a royalty free system. While the Oracle of Pretoria might want a monopoly, I think even he is realistic enough to know that that is a legally perilous path to tred.

As for EA, my personal opinion was that once the fraud fine money runs out (next year?) they were on extremely thin ice anyway. But again, there’s no compelling reason for the SuperCharger system to be the only NCAS option.

Bonus points for “Oracle of Pretoria”! ???

 

[Jimrpa]

I won't claim to be 100% knowledgeable, but my understanding is that the CCS standard is designed to do more, particularly to allow "bi-directional" use. I'm sure hoping that, in the not-too-distant future, I can use my EV battery as a home backup during outages. And there's lots of talk about using "crowd-sourcing" of EV battery capacity to smooth out grid supply and demand as more renewables come online. (I read that California will require bi-directionality in the future.)

Europe is ahead of N.America on this stuff. and they use CCS (though version 2 rather than 1). I sure hope Ford/GM/Tesla have a plan in place to provide bi-directionality without yet another plug variation.

Anyone know more about this than I do?

What happens when people run their car batteries dead because they have to watch every LIV golf game? Vehicle to house has always seemed like a gimmick to me.

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