This interview with Farley literally answers every software gremlin post on this site

[Mirak]

PAAK has worked with my iPhone X since the dealer set it up for me on the day I picked up the car. There have been a few issues come and go over the past two years mostly related to software resets and the like, but all I have to do is set it up again. So saying it doesn't work at all is bull****. Saying it doesn't work for some users is completely accurate, however, and from my observation it seems to be mostly phone-dependent. And by the way, even though PAAK works for me I still carry the FOB 90% of the time (and I purchased a second one for my wife before they were free) because we are old-skool in that way, and we don't always go out and about with our phones. YMMV.

If you carry your FOB 90% of the time, how can you possibly say that PAAK works consistently for you?

Whether it works consistently is much more a matter of one's definition of "works" rather than one's phone. If one defines works as "the doors open eventually, even if take 5-10 seconds and several button presses" then, yeah, PAAK "works" most of the time. If one expects PAAK to work as well as the FOB, it doesn't work. For anyone. I'm not expecting that, exactly, but I sure would appreciate PAAK performance to more closely approximate the FOB experience.

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[ARK]

If you carry your FOB 90% of the time, how can you possibly say that PAAK works consistently for you?

Whether it works consistently is much more a matter of one's definition of "works" rather than one's phone. If one defines works as "the doors open eventually, even if take 5-10 seconds and several button presses" then, yeah, PAAK "works" most of the time. If one expects PAAK to work as well as the FOB, it doesn't work. For anyone. I'm not expecting that, exactly, but I sure would appreciate PAAK performance to more closely approximate the FOB experience.

I’ve been carrying the fob the last year and a half, and I’ve noticed for the last several months I’ve had to press the door opener button several times and wait several seconds before it would work, just like PaaK for me in the early days before that update came out I think in Fall 2021. Does that make it better or worse if there is some underlying door module issue here on top of PaaK issues ?

In fairness, recently the fob seems to have improved back to its old self, I might have gotten some module update with the last dealer visit.

 

[mkhuffman]

If you carry your FOB 90% of the time, how can you possibly say that PAAK works consistently for you?

Whether it works consistently is much more a matter of one's definition of "works" rather than one's phone. If one defines works as "the doors open eventually, even if take 5-10 seconds and several button presses" then, yeah, PAAK "works" most of the time. If one expects PAAK to work as well as the FOB, it doesn't work. For anyone. I'm not expecting that, exactly, but I sure would appreciate PAAK performance to more closely approximate the FOB experience.

My new phone seems to be working just as well as the fob I carried around for about a year. I did have a phone issue once but other than that it seems very reliable. This is post OTA update, if it matters...

 

[Hammered]

If you carry your FOB 90% of the time, how can you possibly say that PAAK works consistently for you?

Whether it works consistently is much more a matter of one's definition of "works" rather than one's phone. If one defines works as "the doors open eventually, even if take 5-10 seconds and several button presses" then, yeah, PAAK "works" most of the time. If one expects PAAK to work as well as the FOB, it doesn't work. For anyone. I'm not expecting that, exactly, but I sure would appreciate PAAK performance to more closely approximate the FOB experience.

You can tell when PAAK is working because the vehicle detects the phone nearly 3x the distance from the car that the FOB does. This is actually kind of annoying in that getting within 50' of the MME makes it turn on greeting lighting. Due to the proximity of the vehicle to my active area of my residence, sync will go to sleep after 2 days due to waking up so much due to my phone's movement.

There's a possibility that people are triggering wakeup enough that sync sleeps and may cause an interruption to PAAK. Just a theory, I don't care to test it.

 

[Sneezy]

I'm baffled. They outsourced all of the modules to different suppliers AND had them all write different pieces of software without thinking about compatibility?

That explains the software issues.

 

[Hammered]

I'm baffled. They outsourced all of the modules to different suppliers AND had them all write different pieces of software without thinking about compatibility?

That explains the software issues.

Govt level incompetence. They do this all the time be it advanced aircraft, or vaccine production. Taxpayers funded certain vaccines that some how the company now retains exclusive rights to and is now jacking up prices.

 

[DevSecOps]

You can tell when PAAK is working because the vehicle detects the phone nearly 3x the distance from the car that the FOB does. This is actually kind of annoying in that getting within 50' of the MME makes it turn on greeting lighting. Due to the proximity of the vehicle to my active area of my residence, sync will go to sleep after 2 days due to waking up so much due to my phone's movement.

There's a possibility that people are triggering wakeup enough that sync sleeps and may cause an interruption to PAAK. Just a theory, I don't care to test it.

PaaK will only wake the car 5 times (maybe 6 - I can't remember) before it won't wake it anymore. So, if you are constantly around the car the greeting lights and such will not come on after that many times. It's not 2 days if you're constantly near the car.

 

[RWG]

Well,

I must admit, I expected better Product Management intelligence from Ford when it comes to suppliers with IP rights connected to their components. In my view, as a former and now retired Product Manager, it seems to me like it should have been standard operating procedures to make sure that all purchased components with IP rights attached should have had Supply Chain contracts that allowed the manufacture to make changes. If not, that indicates some potential Product Management, Supply Chain and Engineering management screw ups. I am not sympathetic. No doubt what Mr. Farley stated will cause significant issues when problems pop up. However, I expect a 100 year old car company should have had years of experience and in house Supply Chain negotiation procedures to minimize the issue and potential problems. For the CEO to have to explain this "excuse" is astounding, 5 years after the Mach E was originally designed.

To me, this type of problem could be indicative of much larger, systemic, executive Product Management problems at Ford.

If Ford indeed is going to now write its own software, I hope they are successful in finding the right talent to do the job. However, it will probably take years to make any real impact. Today the Mach E is mostly comprised of 3rd party sourced components and IP, therefore it will take sometime to phase out and/or change things. It could take years . . . . .

 

[Motomax]

Your software could be well out of date. Even a fresh boot of sync the backup cam comes on regardless if the APIM is booted.

The worst decision on ford's part was copying the negatives of tesla in putting HVAC into the screen. I have no interest in any version of this. I want a button I can feel and manipulate without the touch alone screwing with it. In-fact I'd love for it to be codified that non-entertainment functionality of the car that will be used while in motion must be physical buttons. Rivian goes one further in the tard department putting vent directional controls in the menu. Fumbling around on a touch screen for basic controls should be illegal, and while they're at if they could delete half of all other laws, that'd be great. Less in this case is less. VW's cheap out on the ID4 window control is hilarious. 4 windows, and 2 levers with a caps lock like control to control if the window buttons control either the front, or the rear. Quite surprised they just didn't go with 1 lever and have the driver fumble some touch sensor to scroll through which window it controls.

Old meaning updates that had the same description were already installed months ago (another indication of the attention to detail that ford puts in their updates). Whatever they did my screen stay black until I’m down the street and around the corner. Not every time but enough times. They literally mess something up on every update lol.

 

[abfoot7818]

Interesting take ... I look at more like incompetence. When they designed the MachE they should have ensured that everything works together. They should have hired people who know how to design software for cars. It's as if they just threw something together to get it out the door and we have to bear the brunt of it.

If I were to start selling things to customers to secure critical operations without knowing how it all works together and they suffered a catastrophic loss I'm sure I would be held for negligence. Especially if I went on twitter and said, "Well it's hard and we didn't plan well to make sure they talk together".

Hmm, I don’t think you and I own the same car. Just to be clear I have a 2023 Ford Mustang Mach-E California route one, built 4/17/2023. I have put 3000 miles on it the first month I owned it only using phone as a key and occasionally I did have to open the app and wait 5 seconds, but hey I’m 43 years old. I had to re-install a nearly bricked windows 95 operating system every four months just so that I could get online with a 14K dialup modem so waiting 4 to 5 seconds for my phone app to work for my car is OK by me. It’s not as if it’s 25% of my total lifetime. Perhaps I’ve had a lot of shitty experiences in my life and this car is the exact opposite of that. If your car has been in the shop for three months, like one of my gas powered vehicles has been and you have my total sympathy if you’re nitpicking and your car that has been 100% reliable and has not been in the shop, may I suggest you find an open road and put the pedal on the right to the floor- one or both ends of your mouth will turn to the sky ? that is if you and I own the same car. (in college I used to work for a car rental company that picked up its customers from dealerships I found that everybody sat together in the waiting room of a particular dealership all agreeing that that brand is a total piece of crap. I reminded them that I go to all the other car dealerships and everyone in the waiting room is only there to fix their car so of course it is an echo chamber of negativity towards a single brand.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I'm baffled. They outsourced all of the modules to different suppliers AND had them all write different pieces of software without thinking about compatibility?

A long, long time ago and long before the continuously updatable vehicle was a thing. To save money.

 

[Hammered]

PaaK will only wake the car 5 times (maybe 6 - I can't remember) before it won't wake it anymore. So, if you are constantly around the car the greeting lights and such will not come on after that many times. It's not 2 days if you're constantly near the car.

I don't keep my phone in the pocket or on me, so days isn't a really good example. With the LFP aux batt I have in the F150 it can be waken up ~200 times and still have current to spare. I haven't checked the MME's various energy usage for a given action, but I've detailed the F150's quite well. I wouldn't expect them to be too dissimilar.

F150 hybrid energy / action costs. (amp hours are based on a 13.3-13.4 12v resting voltage)

1.31ah - Key off w/ 120 seconds of headlights on (approach truck, welcome lights on, unlock door, hit key on accessory, key off immediately, walk away and lock door)

1ah on the nose - Approach w/ welcome lighting enabled, open door for 2 minutes w/ running board deployed, close door walking away, 10 seconds later push lock button

.45 ah -- Approach close enough to trigger welcome lighting

.40 ah --12hrs overnight with no user 'inputs' or 'wakeups'

.14 ah --Fordpass app remote lock command via cell

.13 ah -- Without approaching truck, push lock button on FOB (truck was locked). This is something you'd do to confirm you've locked the vehicle

 

[DevSecOps]

There's like 20 different people in this thread that have said the same thing I said, but I'm the one who always gets picked on ... anyway

@abfoot7818 Since I assume you had no intention of throwing bloody chum into a shark tank I'll take it easy on you

Hmm, I don’t think you and I own the same car.

I have a GT Performance Edition as listed in the vehicle list in my bio

If your car has been in the shop for three months, like one of my gas powered vehicles has been and you have my total sympathy if you’re nitpicking and your car that has been 100% reliable and has not been in the shop, may I suggest you find an open road and put the pedal on the right to the floor- one or both ends of your mouth will turn to the sky

My car has been in the shop over 100 days in the first 18 months of ownership. Regardless of that, the software bugs that plague this car are abundant. You have a 2023, which has different hardware and might not be as bad, but I would say that the majority of people here have 21/22 model year vehicles that have a variety of issues.

As for flooring it... unfortunately my truck will outperform, out accelerate and completely destroy any MachE trim made. So I'm not mouth wide open in the MachE. Many people who have GTPEs are actually disappointed in the 5 second performance limiting.

I don't keep my phone in the pocket or on me, so days isn't a really good example. With the LFP aux batt I have in the F150 it can be waken up ~200 times and still have current to spare. I haven't checked the MME's various energy usage for a given action, but I've detailed the F150's quite well. I wouldn't expect them to be too dissimilar.

You entire post has me confused. It looks like what you have now switched to is LVB battery discharge???

I don't own an F150, nor do I ever care to and I don't know what it has to do with the MachE. The being said, PaaK will only wake the MachE (no idea what is does to an ICE F150) a certain number of times before a power cycle is performed. Like I said, I think it's 5. As for LVB drain, well as long as your HVB is above 12% SOC then you don't have to worry about it like an ICE vehicle. The HVB will charge the LVB, so I fail to see the relevance or importance of tracking minuscule amp hour measurements for wake status on the MachE. You have a massive battery under that car that will keep those lights on for a long time.

 

[Hammered]

I don't own an F150, nor do I ever care to and I don't know what it has to do with the MachE. The being said, PaaK will only wake the MachE (no idea what is does to an ICE F150) a certain number of times before a power cycle is performed. Like I said, I think it's 5. As for LVB drain, well as long as your HVB is above 12% SOC then you don't have to worry about it like an ICE vehicle. The HVB will charge the LVB, so I fail to see the relevance or importance of tracking minuscule amp hour measurements for wake status on the MachE. You have a massive battery under that car that will keep those lights on for a long time.

The MME will only charge the 12v once every 48hrs which is insufficient based on the number of times I've found the APIM sleeping. The F150 and MME have the same vehicle network / sync architecture onboard. Dozens of directly interchangeable parts.

 

[DevSecOps]

The MME will only charge the 12v once every 48hrs which is insufficient based on the number of times I've found the APIM sleeping.

That is wildly incorrect. It will charge the LVB when it needs to be charged. It charges it when it's low voltage. It charges it when it's charging the HVB and it charges it when it's being driven. All of which can happen multiple times in a day.

Here's a 48hr snapshot where it charged ~13 times in 48 hours.

And here's a copy of the LVB being topped off by the HVB for low voltage twice in 24 hours.

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