For EVs to become “No-Brainers” over ICE.

[luckie]

Is it?

I figured it was just a PHEV.

The biggest difference with the Volt is the gas generator never drove the wheels.

While the Volt was designed to play the role of a series hybrid (gas engine serving only as electricity generator) turns out the GM engineers found permitting the gas engine to assist in propulsion increased efficiency and thus particularly on the highway the ICE engine always helped out. Thus Volts were technically not series hybrids. But in practice, in day to day driving were powerful EVs with no range anxiety, heck unlimited range in some ways.

I think the 2023 next gen Prius Prime will be an excellent reincarnation of the Chevy Volt. This type of PHEV can be a necessary “gateway drug” to move people to BEVs.

AND we who drive full BEVs will not be surprised that in *summer* when driving around town the new Prius Primes are regularly getting more than the EPA numbers, they are reaching 60 miles of range from their smaller battery. And like the Chevy Volt, when in EV mode the 2023 Prime’s gasoline engine does not kick unexpectedly, in fact not even on the highway unless you exceed 80mph.

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[BigMach-E]

@DevSecOps I don’t think that EV ownership/use is particularly impactful in the grand scheme of things vis a vis climate change myself. Being that the EPA believes that 14 percent of greenhouse gases are due to transportation. I do think, if you own and use the car for longer than two years, it likely will have some impact on CO2 emissions, but I don’t think EV use is the panacea for global climate change.

 

[phil]

I am in the long range camp...

For mass adoption, people like my wife need to be convinced.

If I had a 600 mile range vehicle...

It just seems so wasteful, lugging a 600-mile battery everywhere you go.

Fortunately, I don't care about 'mass adoption' of EVs. I'm perfectly happy to let competing technologies evolve, and let people buy whatever they like. When they can get 600-mile range from a battery the size and weight of a D cell, EVs will no doubt be more popular. Until then, long road trips are why God gave us gasoline.

 

[phil]

Gotta say don't think it includes *actual* scientists, just "influencers", wannabe celebrities, politicians, and I do know of some media sources that make up silly tales about stuff, even EVs.

I am with DevSecOps on this one. The corruption of actual, professional scientists and scientific institutions by politics, money, and bureaucracy is pervasive.

No, scientists should not be trusted merely because their job is science. No more than a random policeman, teacher or clergyman can be trusted simply because his or her job is educating or protecting people.

 

[Mach1E]

While the Volt was designed to play the role of a series hybrid (gas engine serving only as electricity generator) turns out the GM engineers found permitting the gas engine to assist in propulsion increased efficiency and thus particularly on the highway the ICE engine always helped out. Thus Volts were technically not series hybrids. But in practice, in day to day driving were powerful EVs with no range anxiety, heck unlimited range in some ways.

I think the 2023 next gen Prius Prime will be an excellent reincarnation of the Chevy Volt. This type of PHEV can be a necessary “gateway drug” to move people to BEVs.

AND we who drive full BEVs will not be surprised that in *summer* when driving around town the new Prius Primes are regularly getting more than the EPA numbers, they are reaching 60 miles of range from their smaller battery. And like the Chevy Volt, when in EV mode the 2023 Prime’s gasoline engine does not kick unexpectedly, in fact not even on the highway unless you exceed 80mph.

Definitely agree that vehicles like this are the real solution for most people.

Now if they could figure out how to make one that does 0-60 in 3.5 and doesn’t cost $120,000………. I would definitely be interested.

Seems like most of the PHEVs are quite slow in “electric only” mode. And unfortunately that’s my favorite part of my Mach E driving- instant torque and insane acceleration.

But most drivers don’t really care that much about speed. So the Prime Toyotas are perfect. Of course price is a barrier, but based on the waiting lists for those cars….. apparently not a problem.

 

[luckie]

Definitely agree that vehicles like this are the real solution for most people.

Now if they could figure out how to make one that does 0-60 in 3.5 and doesn’t cost $120,000………. I would definitely be interested.

Seems like most of the PHEVs are quite slow in “electric only” mode. And unfortunately that’s my favorite part of my Mach E driving- instant torque and insane acceleration.

But most drivers don’t really care that much about speed. So the Prime Toyotas are perfect. Of course price is a barrier, but based on the waiting lists for those cars….. apparently not a problem.

What was nice about the Chevy Volt, and is now finally the same with the new next-gen 2023 Prius Prime, is they are powerful PHEVs. Step down on the pedal and it takes off and shoves you back in your seat, cause it's an EV. This new Prius Prime is "not your Dad's Prius Prime".

 

[luckie]

I am with DevSecOps on this one. The corruption of actual, professional scientists and scientific institutions by politics, money, and bureaucracy is pervasive.

No, scientists should not be trusted merely because their job is science. No more than a random policeman, teacher or clergyman can be trusted simply because his or her job is educating or protecting people.

Hey, as long as you know and work with lots of scientists, if that's your own personal experience, Roger that, that's valid. But it's kinda like saying that all engineers are corrupt, and so are all their professional societies etc, seems like something if someone told you that, you might pause just a bit, and be skeptical of.

 

[ARK]

The slam dunk is Mustang Mach-e ?

It’s range is adequate and it works hard & performs well for 30,000 miles pa, I quite like the occasional pause in a working day esp when charger is at MaccyDees ?

Love those wheels and body-colored side mirrors

 

[phil]

Hey, as long as you know and work with lots of scientists, if that's your own personal experience, Roger that, that's valid. But it's kinda like saying that all engineers are corrupt, and so are all their professional societies etc, seems like something if someone told you that, you might pause just a bit, and be skeptical of.

I am a scientist, and have been for decades. I work with many scientists, and am a member of several professional organizations.

I said the corruption is pervasive, not universal, and I stand by that. Science has been much in the news in recent years, and the corruption is apparent, to either a professional or a layman who cares to see it.

 

[ARK]

Which isn't true at all.

Modern ICE cars in the $50K range have ventilated seats, HUD, 360 cameras, digital rear view mirror, 2nd row heated, etc etc. Heck my 23 Grand Cherokee has most of those except the HUD....

Mach-E Premium is super basic in comparison to modern SUVs in the same price range. I argue EVs are cheeeap and often budgety. My GC has real leather seats too as did my Telluride and they are/were $10K cheaper too.

This is one of those Tesla myths that have gone mainstream. Agree that there is nothing inherent about EVs that prevents automakers from loading up on tech with their ICEs.

The S, not the Tesla, but the Mercedes, is often at the absolute cutting edge with this kind of stuff.

 

[Blue highway]

This is one of those Tesla myths that have gone mainstream. Agree that there is nothing inherent about EVs that prevents automakers from loading up on tech with their ICEs.

The S, not the Tesla, but the Mercedes, is often at the absolute cutting edge with this kind of stuff.

That's right - want to see what your car will offer in 10 years, look at a Mercedes S class today...

I suspect the relatively sparton nature of this gen of EVs is due to cost constraints... the EV drive train costs more than an ICE drive train today, so car companies de-content EVs to keep costs down.

 

[mkhuffman]

I am a scientist, and have been for decades. I work with many scientists, and am a member of several professional organizations.

I said the corruption is pervasive, not universal, and I stand by that. Science has been much in the news in recent years, and the corruption is apparent, to either a professional or a layman who cares to see it.

It is very sad that the corruption of science has become so pervasive. It seems to me that agendas matter more than facts.

Whenever a news report or politician uses science as the reason for a policy, I think they are lying and the science is bogus. I don't trust any of them any more.

And in reality, most of the science we are talking about isn't settled even though they lie to us and tell us it is. I remember all the dire predictions "scientists" made years ago (and more recently) that turned out to be false. They did it to themselves but we all suffer as a result.

 

[superdave80]

Have the infrastructure in place to evacuate millions of people at once (Hurricane Irma).

Gas stations have the same limitations in a mass evacuation (long-ass lines). At least EVs can be kept topped off more often (if plugged in every day), and do much better in crawling stop-and-go evacuation traffic. There is seldom a good system for getting millions of people out of an area quickly.

 

[Mach1E]

Gas stations have the same limitations in a mass evacuation (long-ass lines). At least EVs can be kept topped off more often (if plugged in every day), and do much better in crawling stop-and-go evacuation traffic. There is seldom a good system for getting millions of people out of an area quickly.

The gas stations worked fine to get everyone evacuated. It’s not even remotely comparable.

If even 50% were “EV only households” when Irma came through we would have been screwed.

It’s definitely not a universal situation (long state, millions of people in the path of hurricanes, major hurricane goes through the middle of the state), but it happened and could happen again.

If we have to evacuate, zero chance we take the Mach E. But EV only households don’t have a choice.

Think the lines a rapid chargers are bad on holiday weekends? Imagine literally every person around you evacuating and having to drive 8-12 hours to get to Georgia on the same day.

We will NEVER have enough infrastructure to handle that load.

 

[bp99]

It is very sad that the corruption of science has become so pervasive. It seems to me that agendas matter more than facts.

Whenever a news report or politician uses science as the reason for a policy, I think they are lying and the science is bogus. I don't trust any of them any more.

And in reality, most of the science we are talking about isn't settled even though they lie to us and tell us it is. I remember all the dire predictions "scientists" made years ago (and more recently) that turned out to be false. They did it to themselves but we all suffer as a result.

One of the issues is that most research is done by PhD's. In order to get your PhD, you need to be accepted in to a program based upon what your dissertation and research will be. That means in the fields that have become politicized, if you're not going to follow the accepted path with your research, the gatekeepers won't let you in. Rather than having science that looks to challenge wide held assumptions (and challenging can actually strengthen those assumptions if the challenging hypothesis is found to be invalid), we have nothing but research being done in support. Those fields of science become nothing more than self supporting echo chambers. Sure, 99% of the scientists in the field agree, but that's because agreeing was the criteria to enter that field.

There's nothing special about being a scientist. Scientists are people just like everyone else. They come with bias and the same motivations as any other human. We're all flawed in many ways.

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