Darren Palmer: 5-second limit on full power acceleration will be "changed"

[0t60-3.5]

Screw it, I’m all in!

Before Oct 1

10 seconds

Less throttling off boost

And just for fun? More peak hp! Don’t forget, these motors are capable of 562hp combined. Why not free up a few extra ponies while you’re at it!

THIS WOULD BE AWESOME !!!!

Curious, with full power thrust, does the actual acceleration slow down at faster RPMs of the motors? Any idea of the curve? And thus my biggest question...

If full power with some reduction in acceleration due to RPM / torque loss with no shifting of gears, what could be expected time and speed at quarter mile? Could it be a 10 second or 10.5 second quarter mile? I'm sure some of these smart guys on this forum will be able to make a good estimate.

My current best time is 12.389 on the track & 103mph. Had it up to 116mph as well.

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[zvez]

The biggest complaint I observe in this forum is the sudden power drop. In months of ownership, I have only observed this once. Most of the time, I can accelerate hard exactly once, and then I am in traffic. ? I definitely think a more gradual power dip will fix 90% of the issue with usability. When a competitive product was first introduced, thermal mgt was one of the three big issues. I have no doubt full power from 0-60 was a key goal for the MME…metrics matter. HVBJB is likely the biggest issue as it is heat-trapped and size-constrained. To handle 1000 Amps for a continuous period requires bigger contactors, traces, and surface area on connectors. The question is how much heat can you put in every part of that component before failure? You can’t just measure the heat and call it a day, you really need to produce failure modes that don’t kill customers. That’s a bad thing (tm). Unfortunately, HVBJB-gate helped a lot with some failure modes. They identified weak points, and now need to find the next ones without frying customers’ cars. Maybe they should sign up the EA crew for that? <dons nomex Suit >. I could not have waited for a perfect product from Ford. I’m having lots of fun with what I bought. Yeah I feel a bit duped, but only after 5 seconds. I am going to mention again how much I appreciate the 21 and 22 owners. Your experience made my 23 an enjoyable product. Bring on the Power-ups!

So I've ordered a GTPE, I'm curious, the 5 second cutoff. Does it only occur at MAX throttle for five seconds, or if I go say 90% throttle will it cut back at five seconds? Been wondering about this.

 

[Blue highway]

Yes, on a job 1 in FordPass.



*In beta

2 year beta?

 

[Mach-Lee]

I've seen you mention that before, and I was wondering: Is it the max continuous rate just like electrical code wiring, i.e., you can run 80% of the rated current if you intend to run it for longer than 3 hours, or is it the "absolute" maximum? Hope that makes sense.

It's based on IEC 60364, they do things differently than the 80% rule in the NEC. With proper insulation it's a true 100% continuous rating.

So, rolling all the way back, I’m pretty sure Darren Palmer is some high-ranking ford mucky-muck. I’d love to hear his explanation why they’ve taken that decision.

If they added the Frunk button for everyone in FordPass, there would suddenly be a bunch of Job 1 people going "Oh what's this new button, and why doesn't it work?". My understanding is they were going to deploy the module update first before enabling the button in FordPass. But for whatever reason that OTA was delayed indefinitely.

Like I've said before, they should just put out a TSB for it and make it a dealer update at this point. Or just click go on the OTA already. One non-working button in FordPass is not a big deal, people will get over it until the OTA installs. There is a bunch of stuff that doesn't work right in FordPass already, so I don't think many people will be surprised or change their opinion.

 

[Mach1E]

THIS WOULD BE AWESOME !!!!

Curious, with full power thrust, does the actual acceleration slow down at faster RPMs of the motors? Any idea of the curve? And thus my biggest question...

If full power with some reduction in acceleration due to RPM / torque loss with no shifting of gears, what could be expected time and speed at quarter mile? Could it be a 10 second or 10.5 second quarter mile? I'm sure some of these smart guys on this forum will be able to make a good estimate.

My current best time is 12.389 on the track & 103mph. Had it up to 116mph as well.

Yes, the acceleration curve (rate of acceleration, also what you feel) goes directly hand in hand with the tq curve.

So I’ll do some rough math based on what we know (without a Dyno).

Top speed 124, top rpm- about 12,500.

So it’s about 100 rpm per mph.

hp= tq x rpm/5252

Peak tq is 634 and happens around 3000 rpm (30 mph based on where we feel peak acceleration)

But that’s only about 362 hp. So maybe at 480 hp peak tq is around 39 mph.

With 562 hp, they could extend peak tq and to around 4600 rpm (46 mph) before dropping off.

If we somehow keep a flat HP curve, we would still have 562 hp exactly all the way until the boost timer ends.

But that means by 92 mph, your rate of acceleration (and tq) is exactly half of peak.


TLDR; So…….. yes. Acceleration slows down (and tq goes down) starting around 4600 rpm or 46 mph if we got the max power our motors are capable of. And no, that’s not enough power for 10’s.

Mid 11’s at most.

 

[Mach1E]

let’s take a stroll down memory lane, shall we?

Yeah, but who is this “Jim Farley” guy and what does he know? ?

Darren is the guy to get this done.**


**Only compliments for Darren are allowed as hopefully he gets this done for us.

 

[EELinneman]

2 year beta?

Ask early buyers of Tesla FSD if they would be happy with only 2 years in beta!

 

[Mach-Lee]

With 562 hp, they could extend peak tq and to around 4600 rpm (46 mph) before dropping off.

If we somehow keep a flat HP curve, we would still have 562 hp exactly all the way until the boost timer ends.

That's not how electric motors work, you can't just extend the peak torque. That's a function of the motor design and voltage. The max torque output is probably only available up to 2500-3000 RPM, then it will come down. See a typical electric motor torque curve (look at teal/red lines for 350V input):

Motor horsepower also peaks very shortly after the torque peak, so they are in the same ballpark ~3000 RPM (again focus on teal/red lines for 350V). These are the maximum value possible with zero limiting:

They can do some things to enhance the top end limiting when the power cut happens, but the low end will probably be the same because the motors are already at or near max output. Low end is also traction limited somewhat.

I would expect the 0-60 time to be the same as before, 1/8 mile slightly faster, but maybe a 1 sec improvement in the 1/4 mile times?

 

[Mach1E]

That's not how electric motors work, you can't just extend the peak torque. That's a function of the motor design and voltage. The max torque output is probably only available up to 2500-3000 RPM, then it will come down. See a typical electric motor torque curve (look at teal/red lines for 350V input):

Motor horsepower also peaks very shortly after the torque peak, so they are in the same ballpark ~3000 RPM (again focus on teal/red lines for 350V). These are the maximum value possible with zero limiting:

They can do some things to enhance the top end limiting when the power cut happens, but the low end will probably be the same because the motors are already at or near max output. Low end is also traction limited somewhat.

I would expect the 0-60 time to be the same as before, 1/8 mile slightly faster, but maybe a 1 sec improvement in the 1/4 mile times?

They may not extend “peak tq,” but they will definitely extend tq into higher rpm to get 562 hp.

Because math.

hp=tq x rpm/5252

Since we know that the 562hp is max and we know that 634 tq is also max……. Gotta raise the tq at rpm.

How could they do it? Reducing the limiters. We are already artificially limited to 480 hp.

Agreed about your conclusions though, but I’m guessing it wouldn’t quite be a second faster 1/4 unless we did get all the limiters removed.

 

[Mach-E_Man_Randy_Savage]

Darren says he knows charging times are important and they’re working on it but that only the LFP cars will benefit from faster charging.

Darren! Please shave 8 mins off my 10-80% charging time, thanks!

As a 2023 Standard range Premium owner, this makes me ecstatic. Although to be fair, I only use my car for commuting 7 miles a day, so It really won't make that large of a difference for me. BUT! If I need it I would have it ?.

 

[EVmodeler]

That's not how electric motors work, you can't just extend the peak torque. That's a function of the motor design and voltage. The max torque output is probably only available up to 2500-3000 RPM, then it will come down. See a typical electric motor torque curve (look at teal/red lines for 350V input):

Motor horsepower also peaks very shortly after the torque peak, so they are in the same ballpark ~3000 RPM (again focus on teal/red lines for 350V). These are the maximum value possible with zero limiting:

They can do some things to enhance the top end limiting when the power cut happens, but the low end will probably be the same because the motors are already at or near max output. Low end is also traction limited somewhat.

I would expect the 0-60 time to be the same as before, 1/8 mile slightly faster, but maybe a 1 sec improvement in the 1/4 mile times?

Remy hvh motor plots!

see this for results from a pretty simple accel model

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ssible-performance-capability-of-the-gt.9599/

 

[EVmodeler]

Remy hvh motor plots!

see this for results from a pretty simple accel model

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ssible-performance-capability-of-the-gt.9599/

and the GTPE has higher torque but the same power as GT from higher maximum inverter output current (below motor base speed), and not any higher maximum battery current.

 

[generaltso]

As a 2023 Standard range Premium owner, this makes me ecstatic.

Why? Your car doesn’t have an LFP battery, does it?

 

[Mach-E_Man_Randy_Savage]

Why? Your car doesn’t have an LFP battery, does it?

It does. I didn't find out till after I bought it, which was a happy surprise.

 

[generaltso]

It does. I didn't find out till after I bought it, which was a happy surprise.

I haven‘t seen any reports of 2023.5 cars being delivered yet. What’s the 8th digit of your VIN?

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