5 second acceleration limit

[abramova]

Mach E GT is a great machine.

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[mkhuffman]

Mach E GT is a great machine.

I agree. I love mine.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Running it at 2/3 throttle, is likely the same thing as putting the car into unbridled extend. IT basically limits the top end power so you can get the "full" power longer.

Yeah, was just spitballing whether the GT/GT-PE would run the quarter like a Premium if the power wet limited perhaps a little more or a little less than Unbridled Extend limits it. ?‍?

 

[Caramel]

I don’t have a dragy but I’m happy to loan out my GT if other Colorado locals have one want to get some data. Ie if someone wants to compare GT, GT-PEs and premiums.

 

[Mach1E]

Yeah, was just spitballing whether the GT/GT-PE would run the quarter like a Premium if the power wet limited perhaps a little more or a little less than Unbridled Extend limits it. ?‍?

People have done unbridled extend 1/4 miles. It loses about a second but the trap speed is unchanged.

Only way less than 100% would be faster is if the 5 second rule is only based on 100% throttle and you could “trick it” by doing 90% or something.

I doubt that’s the case though since the “grey bars of death” show up in situations other than just after 5 seconds of 100% throttle.

 

[mlhunt856]

Its not that they can't OTA it, its just that they aren't ready to to that, and are having dealers do it so that customers don't have to wait for the updates.

Their OTA process has not gone quite as smoothly as they had planned on.

The distinction you're making isn't of any real import. If Ford doesn't feel confident enough in its OTA process to use it, one might as well say they can't OTA the cars.

And this is important because it affects Ford's ability to improve the cars. Tesla owners and Polestar owners get regular OTAs, which the OEMs are able to push out at more or less arbitrary intervals. If we have to schedule a service appt to get every firmware update Ford wants to push, how often will we get them? Even it Ford could in theory release a firmware update say every month--which is from what I've heard is how often Polestar has been updating its firmware--who wants to make monthly service appointments to get their cars' firmware updated? I certainly don't have time for that.

Never mind the fact that if Ford's only way of getting firmware updates to cars is via the dealer network then Ford will have to pay the dealers for their time and trouble on every update, which will get really expensive really fast, meaning Ford will save their improvements in the software up and only push them at infrequent intervals rather than doing small updates at more frequent intervals. This would make Ford's tempo of improving the cars much slower than it could be if they could push OTAs.

 

[mlhunt856]

I hope Ford will address the 5 second limit they've programmed into the design sooner or later if it is possible to do so given the current design. The only question is whether this limit is a fundamentally necessary constraint based on the design--probably to do with the inherent limitations on heat dissipation in the pack design they went with--or whether Ford was just being cautious in their initial programming because they didn't have enough data to be sure the car would hold up if it was allowed to push more power longer. I guess we'll see.

Myself personally, I don't care all that much. I did not buy the car with the intention of tracking it, which is the only use case for which it really matters. But I can see how some people who bought the car believing it to be a true performance car would feel cheated if this isn't (or can't be) fixed.

 

[Electric Goat]

I'm extremely disappointed with the deceptive marketing tactics used multiple times for the GT and moderately disappointed with the car overall. If @Ford Motor Company doesn't raise the 5 second limit on the car sometime in 2022 then I'll probably jump ship to a better performing BEV. I want to fall in love with this car but this thing really should be running at least an 11.9 second quarter mile. I though that I was buying a mustang but my fear is that I bought a compliance car that they, at the last minute, tried to turn into a mustang.

 

[benk016]

The distinction you're making isn't of any real import. If Ford doesn't feel confident enough in its OTA process to use it, one might as well say they can't OTA the cars.

And this is important because it affects Ford's ability to improve the cars. Tesla owners and Polestar owners get regular OTAs, which the OEMs are able to push out at more or less arbitrary intervals. If we have to schedule a service appt to get every firmware update Ford wants to push, how often will we get them? Even it Ford could in theory release a firmware update say every month--which is from what I've heard is how often Polestar has been updating its firmware--who wants to make monthly service appointments to get their cars' firmware updated? I certainly don't have time for that.

Never mind the fact that if Ford's only way of getting firmware updates to cars is via the dealer network then Ford will have to pay the dealers for their time and trouble on every update, which will get really expensive really fast, meaning Ford will save their improvements in the software up and only push them at infrequent intervals rather than doing small updates at more frequent intervals. This would make Ford's tempo of improving the cars much slower than it could be if they could push OTAs.

I'm not trying to get into an argument here. I understand the frustration. But, You make it sound like Ford has given up on OTA's, and that is very far from the truth. They just identified an issue and are correcting it before doing any major OTA's.

You don't have to go to a dealer to get an update if you don't want to. They are simply offering that if you decide you don't want to wait for the OTA.

 

[mlhunt856]

...You make it sound like Ford has given up on OTA's, and that is very far from the truth. They just identified an issue and are correcting it before doing any major OTA's.

You don't have to go to a dealer to get an update if you don't want to. They are simply offering that if you decide you don't want to wait for the OTA.

OK.

How long does it take for 'identified and issue and are correcting it' remain the situation without being resolved before the situation can fairly be characterized as a broken process in your view? If we're still arguing about this six months from now will you concede on this point?

And for the record, it not *me* that is making it sound like Ford has given up on OTAs. If anything I said led you to infer this then I would like to clarify. The truth is *I simply don't know what the problem is, or if it will be resolved, or if so, when.*

Before I bought my wife's MME, I heard a lot about OTAs for this car to regularly improve its performance, add new features and capabilities, etc., in press coverage of the car. I'm not sure how much of this was directly Ford PR and how much of it was just the press being the press, but it seems pretty clear that Ford wanted this aspect of how the car would be maintained to be out there. But the only things I've heard from Ford PR recently remotely related to this are about the 21P22 firmware update. I've heard nothing at all about the actual way they intend to manage and push their OTAs.

You seem to have knowledge that Ford has identified known issues in their ability to push OTAs and is working on a fix. I have seen no media coverage presenting this to be the case. If you have specific knowledge of what Ford is doing would you care to share it? If I was as confident as you seem to be that Ford has a plan in place to fix this issue I'd feel a lot better about things.

 

[mkhuffman]

OK.

How long does it take for 'identified and issue and are correcting it' remain the situation without being resolved before the situation can fairly be characterized as a broken process in your view? If we're still arguing about this six months from now will you concede on this point?

And for the record, it not *me* that is making it sound like Ford has given up on OTAs. If anything I said led you to infer this then I would like to clarify. The truth is *I simply don't know what the problem is, or if it will be resolved, or if so, when.*

Before I bought my wife's MME, I heard a lot about OTAs for this car to regularly improve its performance, add new features and capabilities, etc., in press coverage of the car. I'm not sure how much of this was directly Ford PR and how much of it was just the press being the press, but it seems pretty clear that Ford wanted this aspect of how the car would be maintained to be out there. But the only things I've heard from Ford PR recently remotely related to this are about the 21P22 firmware update. I've heard nothing at all about the actual way they intend to manage and push their OTAs.

You seem to have knowledge that Ford has identified known issues in their ability to push OTAs and is working on a fix. I have seen no media coverage presenting this to be the case. If you have specific knowledge of what Ford is doing would you care to share it? If I was as confident as you seem to be that Ford has a plan in place to fix this issue I'd feel a lot better about things.

I really don't want to get into the OTA debate, but I have a couple questions.

Were you happy with your MME as of the day you purchased it? Or did you buy it knowing you don't really like it, but with OTAs it will be made better so then you will like it?

This just reminds me of marriage. If you get married with the expectations that the things you hate about your spouse will change, then your marriage is doomed. You get married loving your spouse exactly as she/his is on the day you get married.

While I know a car divorce is a lot easier than a marriage divorce, I think you should buy the car you like now with the expectation that any improvements will just be icing on top and not really important in the enjoyment of your car. If you buy it but hate some things about it, and you expect Ford will fix those things with an OTA, then I think you probably purchased the wrong car.

I am definitely interested in the elimination of the five second limit. I am definitely interested in PaaK that actually works. I am definitely interested in some improvements in the Sync system. And above all of those, I really, really want the improved charging speed over 80%. But I didn't buy the car expecting those things to be fixed via OTA. I hope they are, but if they are not, it does not impact how much I like my car.

I am still looking for excuses to drive it. Every time my wife needs to go to the store, I volunteer to go just so I can drive my car. If you don't feel like I do, seriously, maybe it is the wrong car. There are some really cool alternatives out there, Tesla offering some of them. (I am not a Tesla hater, BTW.)

 

[Mach1E]

I really don't want to get into the OTA debate, but I have a couple questions.

Were you happy with your MME as of the day you purchased it? Or did you buy it knowing you don't really like it, but with OTAs it will be made better so then you will like it?

This just reminds me of marriage. If you get married with the expectations that the things you hate about your spouse will change, then your marriage is doomed. You get married loving your spouse exactly as she/his is on the day you get married.

While I know a car divorce is a lot easier than a marriage divorce, I think you should buy the car you like now with the expectation that any improvements will just be icing on top and not really important in the enjoyment of your car. If you buy it but hate some things about it, and you expect Ford will fix those things with an OTA, then I think you probably purchased the wrong car.

I am definitely interested in the elimination of the five second limit. I am definitely interested in PaaK that actually works. I am definitely interested in some improvements in the Sync system. And above all of those, I really, really want the improved charging speed over 80%. But I didn't buy the car expecting those things to be fixed via OTA. I hope they are, but if they are not, it does not impact how much I like my car.

I am still looking for excuses to drive it. Every time my wife needs to go to the store, I volunteer to go just so I can drive my car. If you don't feel like I do, seriously, maybe it is the wrong car. There are some really cool alternatives out there, Tesla offering some of them. (I am not a Tesla hater, BTW.)

Not exactly a fair comparison.

The issues that need fixed aren’t things we knew about when we got engaged (ordered the car).

Some were major surprises and not even until after delivery (the wedding).

And if you know anyone who doesn’t expect their spouse to fix/work on the little irritating things, I’d love to meet them!

My wife has been making me do OTA updates for almost 20 years!

 

[mlhunt856]

I really don't want to get into the OTA debate, but I have a couple questions.

Were you happy with your MME as of the day you purchased it? Or did you buy it knowing you don't really like it, but with OTAs it will be made better so then you will like it?

To answer your questions directly, I love my (wife's) MME. The day I went to get the car was the first time I drove it, and two minutes into that test drive I was hooked. If I wasn't enthralled with the car I wouldn't be getting a second, more expensive one for myself. I've since cross-shopped and test driven a couple of competing models (ID.4, Polestar 2), and am that much more convinced that the MME is by far the best car for me all things considered.

But to me, even though it's an excellent car, enough for me to commit over $100k of my money to Ford, it nonetheless remains the case that this OTA thing is something Ford needs to be held to account for resolving. We were sold the car with it being understood that OTAs would be a regular and important part of the overall ownership experience, and NOT that we could expect to make a service appointment every time Ford wanted to fix or improve things in the programming. Even if this doesn't matter all that much to you and probably to many other MME owners, it *is* a failure to follow through on a commitment Ford made that *does* matter to me and probably many other owners as well. Ford needs to fix this.

When consumers just accept companies' failures because they are mostly satisfied with their products, it takes pressure off companies to improve their products and lets us all down in the long run. Ford should not get a pass for this because we like the car. That is exactly the sort of sentiment so common among Tesla owners that makes me disdainful of many of them.

If you visit more general EV message boards, you'll see that Ford's inability so far to deliver OTAs is something people are raising as a possible concern. So this is something people look at when shopping EVs, and Ford needs to fix this for its own sake in terms of its marketing, if not because it's something they committed to.

 

[SashaLondon]

Why didn’t the engineers design the system to handle a much longer power draw. Massive fail on their part. Better cooling or better wiring system to handle the power or both. Then put that on the performance edition.
I think they saw the problem in testing after they made the car and popped a bandaid on it with the 5 second rule. IMHO they should have released the gt as is with the Magna Ride then upgraded the internals so it could go all day without throttling and made that the performance

 

[mkhuffman]

When consumers just accept companies' failures because they are mostly satisfied with their products, it takes pressure off companies to improve their products and lets us all down in the long run. Ford should not get a pass for this because we like the car. That is exactly the sort of sentiment so common among Tesla owners that makes me disdainful of many of them.

Actually, I do agree with you, especially this part. I was just wondering the motivation behind your OTA points. For me personally I plan to have the dealer use their FDRS to update my car when the 80% charging curve is available, or I might do it myself. I am not planning to rely on OTA, and understand many improvements may be too complex for OTA anyway.

And @Mach1E, I get OTA updates also! My release schedule is daily... ?

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