Tesla suppresses thousands of driving range complaints

[DaMeatMan]

Reuters put out an interesting article about Tesla has created a "secret team" whose sole job function is to cancel service requests by customers who are complaining about not getting the stated range shown on the dash.

Link to article:
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

Something most folks should read, particularly if you are new to EV's, and are not entirely up to date on what to REALISTICALLY expect from (any EV) in terms of driving range, based on real world environmental driving conditions.

Long story short Ford is actually very honest about what to expect in the real world, and for a long time prior to more recent updates, was actually very pessimistic with the range figures shown on the dash GOM (Guess'O Meter). Many new customers totally bashed Ford for that honesty, even though Ford was preparing you for the real world and what was actually achievable based on current limitations of EV technology.

Tesla on the other hand has ALWAYS exaggerated their range figures, by essentially displaying the EPA rated range on the dash no matter what the weather was like, no matter how heavy your foot was in past driving, and no matter how hilly the terrain was when driving. Folks celebrated Tesla for this and automotive reviewers took these figures at face value for years touting how Tesla was the King of range, when in reality other comparable EV's with less (displayed range) are actually achieving more REAL WORLD RANGE than a Tesla that displays more range on the dash. A real world example of this can be seen in Mike Maloney's side by side range test of the Long Range Tesla dual motor Model Y, and the Long Range Preimum 4x Mach-E where the Mach-E actually DROVE FURTHER than the model Y before hitting empty, and actually got further than what the dash told him he would get. In comparison the Model Y told him he would get much further than he did, and also failed to match the range of the Mach-E, despite being advertised with a much higher range, which reviewers routinely use to show Teslas superiority.

Here is the bottom line though.. those folks who complain about this stuff (no matter what manufacturers vehicle you drive) are actually uninformed to the realities of what to actually expect in the real world with current EV battery technology. The guys complaining at Ford are ignorant to the realities of what Ford is trying to tell you with real world figures and simply don't like how they feel when they see dimished range figures displayed, and the Tesla customers who complain about not getting the range advertised and shown on the dash are also ignorant of the same realities, and are pissed off about the fact that those big numbers displayed on screen which made them feel soo good, are totally not achievable in the real world in all but the best ideal controlled conditions.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers have a responsibility to educate their consumers to the realities of the technology, and consumers need to do their freaking homework and research before making such a monumental investment in an electric vehicle!

Sponsored

 

[Logal727]

Sounds like a dick move, at least Ford service will pretend to look at it lol

 

[Mach-Lee]

Hey, can we hire them on the forum to delete all the seasonal "why did my range go down" posts? It's going to be that time of year soon...

 

[dj_stang]

Reuters put out an interesting article about Tesla has created a "secret team" whose sole job function is to cancel service requests by customers who are complaining about not getting the stated range shown on the dash.

Link to article:
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

Something most folks should read, particularly if you are new to EV's, and are not entirely up to date on what to REALISTICALLY expect from (any EV) in terms of driving range, based on real world environmental driving conditions.

Long story short Ford is actually very honest about what to expect in the real world, and for a long time prior to more recent updates, was actually very pessimistic with the range figures shown on the dash GOM (Guess'O Meter). Many new customers totally bashed Ford for that honesty, even though Ford was preparing you for the real world and what was actually achievable based on current limitations of EV technology.

Tesla on the other hand has ALWAYS exaggerated their range figures, by essentially displaying the EPA rated range on the dash no matter what the weather was like, no matter how heavy your foot was in past driving, and no matter how hilly the terrain was when driving. Folks celebrated Tesla for this and automotive reviewers took these figures at face value for years touting how Tesla was the King of range, when in reality other comparable EV's with less (displayed range) are actually achieving more REAL WORLD RANGE than a Tesla that displays more range on the dash. A real world example of this can be seen in Mike Maloney's side by side range test of the Long Range Tesla dual motor Model Y, and the Long Range Preimum 4x Mach-E where the Mach-E actually DROVE FURTHER than the model Y before hitting empty, and actually got further than what the dash told him he would get. In comparison the Model Y told him he would get much further than he did, and also failed to match the range of the Mach-E, despite being advertised with a much higher range, which reviewers routinely use to show Teslas superiority.

Here is the bottom line though.. those folks who complain about this stuff (no matter what manufacturers vehicle you drive) are actually uninformed to the realities of what to actually expect in the real world with current EV battery technology. The guys complaining at Ford are ignorant to the realities of what Ford is trying to tell you with real world figures and simply don't like how they feel when they see dimished range figures displayed, and the Tesla customers who complain about not getting the range advertised and shown on the dash are also ignorant of the same realities, and are pissed off about the fact that those big numbers displayed on screen which made them feel soo good, are totally not achievable in the real world in all but the best ideal controlled conditions.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers have a responsibility to educate their consumers to the realities of the technology, and consumers need to do their freaking homework and research before making such a monumental investment in an electric vehicle!

Wonder how much $TSLA shareholders have gained or $F shareholders have lost as a result of this approach (not that I own any F stock), or current MachE owners with resale value. In my personal opinion I would have appreciated Ford eking out as much EPA range as possible for the rating (fairly, like Tesla). Same with the 5 second limiter, leaving much more reserve capacity than T, etc.

In reality I’m fairly skeptical of how much of this comes from the goodness of their hearts (of which there is a lot, been a lifelong Ford owner), and how much is physical limitations that T overcame over their 10+ years of EV experience. Such that they can afford to be less conservative without being buried under warranty claims.

 

[COACH CHRIS]

In reality I’m fairly skeptical of how much of this comes from the goodness of their hearts (of which there is a lot, been a lifelong Ford owner), and how much is physical limitations that T overcame over their 10+ years of EV experience. Such that they can afford to be less conservative without being buried under warranty claims.

I can assure that none of any of what any company does, ever comes from the “goodness of their hearts.” (Not to say we can’t benefit when they do, of course.)

It’s a strategic decision (and apparently a market differentiator) of Ford to show accurate ranges. I appreciate that decision, as it gives me more confidence and trust in the telemetry I see mid-drive. It surprises me not a bit to learn Tesla’s practices were more deceptive.

 

[Blue highway]

Wonder how much $TSLA shareholders have gained or $F shareholders have lost as a result of this approach (not that I own any F stock), or current MachE owners with resale value. In my personal opinion I would have appreciated Ford eking out as much EPA range as possible for the rating (fairly, like Tesla). Same with the 5 second limiter, leaving much more reserve capacity than T, etc.

In reality I’m fairly skeptical of how much of this comes from the goodness of their hearts (of which there is a lot, been a lifelong Ford owner), and how much is physical limitations that T overcame over their 10+ years of EV experience. Such that they can afford to be less conservative without being buried under warranty claims.

fairly like tesla? Tesla overstates range in both their EPA method (different method than everybody else) and on their GOM...

 

[Arsenic17]

Honestly there are enough data sensors in the car and processing power onboard that the dash should damn well be able to give you a fairly accurate estimate of your expected range. It knows the real-time battery health/charge/temps, outdoor temperature, your climate settings, your driving history etc. It should at least be able to get close. Plus when you plug in GPS routing it knows exactly the elevation profile of your route, exactly the speed limits, traffic and should factor in the temperature forecast where you are heading. I think Ford's dash estimate is usually quite good. I never really have any complaints, mainly because it really does underestimate range much of the time IMO.

Tesla just uses some BS fake high number. It's no surprise people get mad about it.

 

[Mirak]

Ummmm… it sounds like what Tesla did wrong was overestimate its driving range. Ford and other manufacturers have done that, too. Bad on them.

But I don’t think it is wrong to assemble a team - gasp a “secret” team!! - to address range complaints by telling customers their cars were fine and cancelling service appointments. Is the argument that Tesla should have incurred millions of dollars in warranty losses due to baseless service appointments?

 

[Darkenmage]

Reuters put out an interesting article about Tesla has created a "secret team" whose sole job function is to cancel service requests by customers who are complaining about not getting the stated range shown on the dash.

Link to article:
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

Something most folks should read, particularly if you are new to EV's, and are not entirely up to date on what to REALISTICALLY expect from (any EV) in terms of driving range, based on real world environmental driving conditions.

Long story short Ford is actually very honest about what to expect in the real world, and for a long time prior to more recent updates, was actually very pessimistic with the range figures shown on the dash GOM (Guess'O Meter). Many new customers totally bashed Ford for that honesty, even though Ford was preparing you for the real world and what was actually achievable based on current limitations of EV technology.

Tesla on the other hand has ALWAYS exaggerated their range figures, by essentially displaying the EPA rated range on the dash no matter what the weather was like, no matter how heavy your foot was in past driving, and no matter how hilly the terrain was when driving. Folks celebrated Tesla for this and automotive reviewers took these figures at face value for years touting how Tesla was the King of range, when in reality other comparable EV's with less (displayed range) are actually achieving more REAL WORLD RANGE than a Tesla that displays more range on the dash. A real world example of this can be seen in Mike Maloney's side by side range test of the Long Range Tesla dual motor Model Y, and the Long Range Preimum 4x Mach-E where the Mach-E actually DROVE FURTHER than the model Y before hitting empty, and actually got further than what the dash told him he would get. In comparison the Model Y told him he would get much further than he did, and also failed to match the range of the Mach-E, despite being advertised with a much higher range, which reviewers routinely use to show Teslas superiority.

Here is the bottom line though.. those folks who complain about this stuff (no matter what manufacturers vehicle you drive) are actually uninformed to the realities of what to actually expect in the real world with current EV battery technology. The guys complaining at Ford are ignorant to the realities of what Ford is trying to tell you with real world figures and simply don't like how they feel when they see dimished range figures displayed, and the Tesla customers who complain about not getting the range advertised and shown on the dash are also ignorant of the same realities, and are pissed off about the fact that those big numbers displayed on screen which made them feel soo good, are totally not achievable in the real world in all but the best ideal controlled conditions.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers have a responsibility to educate their consumers to the realities of the technology, and consumers need to do their freaking homework and research before making such a monumental investment in an electric vehicle!

Well said. Now where do we post this in Tesla forums....

 

[eleven24]

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers have a responsibility to educate their consumers to the realities of the technology, and consumers need to do their freaking homework and research before making such a monumental investment in an electric vehicle!

In 2021 I looked at both the Model Y Long Range and the Mach-E. I liked the styling of the Mach-E much more, but range was the deciding factor. With the Tesla at 330 miles and the Mach E (at the time) at 260 miles, it was a no brainer. I bought the Tesla.

With a 75 kWh battery, that 330 miles translated to 4.4 miles per kW. After 33k miles of driving, my average efficiency ended up being 3.7 miles per kW. That translates to 277 miles of range. (SIDE NOTE: Interestingly, Tesla doesn't use the standard miles per kWh as a measure of efficiency as all other EV manufacturers use. Instead they use watt hours per mile where the lower the number the better the efficiency)

One month and 1k miles in with my Mach-E and I am averaging 3.6 miles per kW in mixed highway/city driving and an average temp over that time of 81 degrees. With the 91 kWh battery, that's the equivalent of a 327 mile range.

When I compare that to last July (avg temp 79 degrees) my Tesla averaged 4.1 miles per kW. With the 75 kWh battery, that's a range of 307 miles.

Anecdotal evidence, but in my case Ford understated and Tesla overstated.

 

[DanoiZ]

From Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range

So, if you were scratching your head wondering how Tesla got so many extra miles out of their batteries, they didn't. It wasn't any technical advantage or wizardry, it was just marketing and lies. They rigged their range estimators to show more miles than the cars could actually go and fudged their numbers with the controlling bodies. This dissonance obviously created a lot of customer complaints and service requests. Then Elon created a team to cancel appointments when customers created appointments for range issues so they wouldn't lose money on service.

"If the remote diagnostics found anything else wrong with the vehicle that was not related to driving range, advisors were instructed not to tell the customer, one of the sources said. Managers told them to close the cases.

Tesla also updated its phone app so that any customer who complained about range could no longer book service appointments, one of the sources said. Instead, they could request that someone from Tesla contact them. It often took several days before owners were contacted because of the large backlog of range complaints, the source said."

Obviously, the right thing to do was to just fix the software to show the correct estimate. The more we get to know about Elon, the more we realize the great and all powerful Oz is really just a con.

Glad I didn't fall for the marketing hype.

 

[generaltso]

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-thousands-of-driving-range-complaints.29528/

 

[DevSecOps]

So you think no one else does this. Ford actually did this for a while as well. They removed all range adjustments to make their vehicles, and I quote "more like Tesla".

 

[DevSecOps]

Long story short Ford is actually very honest about what to expect in the real world, and for a long time prior to more recent updates, was actually very pessimistic with the range figures shown on the dash GOM (Guess'O Meter).

This isn't exactly true for everyone. There's many of us, myself included, where we are always shown the EPA number for range. There is no adjustment for driving behavior. Ford supposedly did this to some of our vehicles to make the range more inline with Tesla. So, while some people still have adjusted range numbers others do not and it's no different than what Tesla does.

Ford has changed GOM calculations a number of times, including pilot programs (intelligent range) that many of us participated in. There's no telling what they will settle on in the end because it was announced just a couple weeks ago that they are going to try adjusting them again. They might end up pushing an update to make all MachEs just like Tesla in the end, full EPA.

All dealers and manufacturers deceive people on range. No one goes to the Ford dealership and is told "Knock off 30% during winter months". They will tell people "Oh sure, this thing gets 300 miles". It's all sales and deceit and a lack of education and understanding from potential buyers.

I've never owned a Tesla and never will, but it's funny these comments seem to forget the hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on this forum about range numbers. It's not just Tesla.

 

[Deleted member 16048]

Honestly not surprised by this, but is definitely a dick move. Frankly this shows how disrespectful Tesla is to their own customers and their attitude in general. Tesla very much has a history of misleading information. They need to start being honest, although we know it won't happen since it will hurt their bottom line.

At the end of the day, I still think the manufactures have a duty to educate customers on EVs and what to expect. There is a big learning curve with them and someone needs to actually educate customers correctly.

Sponsored