superdave80

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150kw fast charging is what was advertised (and is even considered on the slow end) these days, however if the electrical components cannot sustain that power without melting, this is obviously a big problem!
"Up to" 150kw. Always be wary of that old advertising trick. Also, I think it is the battery itself that may be the bottleneck, not necessarily the other components.
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Teslaeata

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Teslaeata

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Weird that it is 22's. 21's have the same issue. I suspect that if the HVBJB was more easily accessed, it would have been recalled a long time ago.
Yep! It’s the cost of the recall and in particular the multiplier which is the focus, not what should be done to be right??‍♂

Twas ever thus!
 

KevinS

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Yep! It’s the cost of the recall and in particular the multiplier which is the focus, not what should be done to be right??‍♂
Per Fight Club (1999)

"Now, should we initiate a recall?

Take the number of vehicles in the field, A,
multiply by the probable rate of failure, B,
multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C.

A times B times C equals X.

If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
 


Teslaeata

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Per Fight Club (1999)

"Now, should we initiate a recall?

Take the number of vehicles in the field, A,
multiply by the probable rate of failure, B,
multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C.

A times B times C equals X.

If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
Yeah, you’re lucky in the US, you got the VDO & NHTSA who have balls, the fight, the authority and aren’t afraid to use it, all we have in the UK is a meely mouthed bunch of pension builders in DVSA who have no balls, no fight, sh*t scared of contention, are swayed by a jolly to a factory in a foreign land and just seemingly rubber stamp what manufacturers say they’re prepared to do!

IMO ?
 

Secret Sauce

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Thanks, and here is the text describing the actual investigation. Note, the article doesn't really get it right. The covered vehicles (cars produced until May 24, 2022) received the software update as the recall remedy. The HVBJB wasn't replaced on the recalled vehicles, but only on the vehicles on which it actually failed. Presumably the NTSB will now be determining if the HVBJB should be replaced proactively on all of the recalled cars.

Summary:
On June 10, 2022, Ford Motor Company (Ford) issued a safety recall (NHTSA Recall 22V-412) on 48,924 model year (MY) 2021-2022 Ford Mustang Mach-E vehicles produced from May 27, 2020, to May 24, 2022. This recall addressed high voltage battery main contactors that may overheat from direct current (“DC”) fast-charging and repeated wide- open pedal events. Overheating may lead to arcing or deformation of the electrical contact surfaces, which may result in a contactor that remains open or a contactor that welds closed. An overheated contactor that opens while driving may result in an immediate loss of motive power without re-engagement, increasing the risk of a crash.
The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) has opened this Recall Query (RQ) after receiving 12 consumer complaints alleging a high voltage battery main contactor failure in MY 2021-2022 Ford Mach-E vehicles (subject vehicles) that were included in Recall 22V-412 and remedied prior to the reported incidents. The remedy in this recall was a Secondary On-Board Diagnostic Control Module (SOBDMC) software update to monitor contactor temperature and reduce battery power to prevent damage to the contactor, and a Battery Energy Control Module (BECM) software update to monitor contactor resistance to identify an overheated contactor and reduce vehicle power to prevent further damage.
Following the recall, Ford issued Technical Service Bulletin TSB 23-2020, to replace the High Voltage Battery Junction Box (HVBJB) on the subject vehicles. Consumers who experienced loss of motive power after receiving the recall remedy reported that their vehicle had the HVBJB replaced, as outlined in TSB 23-2020, to properly remedy the failure of the contactors. This RQ has been opened to assess the remedy of Recall 22V-412.
 

HuntingPudel

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OMg! 2/3 of the power meter’s worth of jail bar’s isn’t safe? ??

Ford Mustang Mach-E NHTSA investigating 2022 Mach-E HVBJB recall (high voltage battery main contactors) IMG_3932


Yeah, it’s molasses in a Montana January slow. OK for driving in town, but on the freeway it was scarier than a rental Yaris I once had to drive. ??

BTW, Bloomberg and Ars Technica picked up this story this morning. ??
 
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Secret Sauce

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ah yes... I'll need to brush up on my government speak. Only a regulator would think in terms of the year a recall was issued... sheesh.
The language of the actual investigation cites a production run period, not a model year. The writer of the article got it wrong.
 

DevSecOps

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The language of the actual investigation cites a production run period, not a model year. The writer of the article got it wrong.
No, the article doesn't speak to a model year at all. As I said previously, the 2022 year is regarding the year that the recall was issued. It's not the model year at all and no where does it say that.

The NHTSA investigation is into the original recall that was issued. It's saying that Ford didn't adequately resolve the problem in the first recall issued in 2022. May of 2022 is the date at which time all newer vehicles were outfitted with a revised version of the HVBJB as such, the recall doesn't apply to them. Therefore, any vehicle produced prior to May of 2022 is affected by the original recall.

If NHTSA determines that vehicles produced after May of 2022 have the same fate then that would be a different recall altogether. This is just a renewed look into the original software "fix" which we all know wasn't a fix.
 

Just Lurking

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...and it appears the new HVBJBs are failing too. Since this is only for 21-22's, those of us with '23s or those who already got the new part, will he SOL on this technicality, unless Ford steps up and replaces them ALL. I realize we don't have % of the new ones failing yet.
I wouldn't worry. The obvious starting point of the investigation are the cars with the initial revision of the HVBJB. But as the investigation proceeds it's trivial to expand it to additional cars.

I think from what has been posted with part numbers that we’re already on a third version of the HVBJB.
Interesting, I hadn't seen that. While that may be true, I remember seeing tear downs of the second generation HVBJB and photos that show it had slightly beefier components. Has anyone posted a teardown of the third model number to verify whether it has any significant changes over the second?
 

AKgrampy

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Thanks, and here is the text describing the actual investigation. Note, the article doesn't really get it right. The covered vehicles (cars produced until May 24, 2022) received the software update as the recall remedy. The HVBJB wasn't replaced on the recalled vehicles, but only on the vehicles on which it actually failed. Presumably the NTSB will now be determining if the HVBJB should be replaced proactively on all of the recalled cars.
Just a review of the effectiveness of the recall. I am not going to review all of the complaints but if they all resulted in SVS then it will probably be found to be effective as that is what the recall was designed to do. If complainants all had SSN then I would think it may be found to be not effective. It does not appear, at least to me, that this will have any affect on the HVBJB itself.
 

AKgrampy

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I think from what has been posted with part numbers that we’re already on a third version of the HVBJB.
I am not sure this is accurate. I think there were two part numbers for the revised edition - one for GT’s and one for non-GT’s but I may have that wrong.
 

DevSecOps

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I am not going to review all of the complaints but if they all resulted in SVS then it will probably be found to be effective as that is what the recall was designed to do.
It's worth noting that the 12 cited are just a handful of the reports they are investigating. The number of SVS to SSN is about 50/50 post recall. Ford also has reported about 150 mfg communications regarding HVBJB failures. NHTSA investigators were contacting people outside of the 12 reported incidents listed. The 12 consumer complaints are just what fired off the renewed investigation from my understanding.
 

Secret Sauce

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No, the article doesn't speak to a model year at all. As I said previously, the 2022 year is regarding the year that the recall was issued. It's not the model year at all and no where does it say that.

The NHTSA investigation is into the original recall that was issued. It's saying that Ford didn't adequately resolve the problem in the first recall issued in 2022. May of 2022 is the date at which time all newer vehicles were outfitted with a revised version of the HVBJB as such, the recall doesn't apply to them. Therefore, any vehicle produced prior to May of 2022 is affected by the original recall.

If NHTSA determines that vehicles produced after May of 2022 have the same fate then that would be a different recall altogether. This is just a renewed look into the original software "fix" which we all know wasn't a fix.
Point taken, but the post I was responding to suggests how it's easy to interpret the article to mean that the recall applied to the 2022 model year, because it doesn't cite the language in the investigation that clarifies the run of cars included.

Also, I don't know that we can be sure when the newer part started being installed. All we really know for certain is cars completed after May 24, 2022 had the new software installed at assembly, and cars produced and shipped before then but not yet delivered sat at dealerships awaiting the install. This I know firsthand, because that's what happened with my MME. Completed in April, not delivered to me until July.

As I understand this, the "software fix" really wasn't a "fix" -- it was designed to catch faulty parts. Now the NTSB might determine that this method was inadequate and the parts are all faulty and should be recalled. From my reading, anyway.
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