NHTSA investigating 2022 Mach-E HVBJB recall (high voltage battery main contactors)

[RickMachE]

The dealer network is the weak link. Ford has little control over its dealers when it comes to personnel matters. The recruiting, training and equipment is all in the dealer's hands and if they don't have sufficient people/tools there is not much Ford can do other than say you are not EV certified.

Although I know a lot of dealers signed up to be EV certified, I wonder how many are actually going to go through the great expense of installing all the charging infrastructure, among all the other requirements, to become EV certified. With the current fall off in sales, I would not be surprised if a lot of Ford dealers reconsider their approval of spending the money needed to be EV certified.

Drop off in sales? You've examined the sales of Mach-Es, Lightnings, and E-Transit vans?

Mach-E sales were down in Q2, but line was shutdown. Lightning sales more than doubled. E Transit vans sales were up almost 64%. In total, electric vehicles sales for the first half of 2023 were up over 2022 but a little, and had the line not been down they would have been up more.

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[RickMachE]

i wonder what the backstory here is. i think i read a recent profile of buttiegieg in which they said he drives an MME. maybe he went thru this debacle, who knows.

i'm glad to hear the government is calling BS on this whole thing, but the question remains if those of us with '23 models and the supposedly enhanced part will eventually see a redesigned part.

Why does there have to be a backstory? People file complaints with NHTSA, they look into them, and find credibility, so they up the investigation. Happens all the time, without a cabinet member having the issue.

 

[Mirak]

If people are wondering why Ford only issued a software recall for this issue, it is because it was (1) way cheaper than replacing units, and (2) all that Ford hoped would be legally required.

Vehicle recalls are only legally required for defects which “pose a risk to motor vehicle safety.” Consumer Reports has a good article which explains it thusly:

According to NHTSA, recalls are conducted for defects that “pose a risk to motor vehicle safety” and that “may exist in a group of vehicles of the same design or manufacture, or items of equipment of the same type and manufacture.” In other words, steering systems that don’t work or engines that abruptly stall would be subject to a recall and paid for by automakers—but peeling paint or a faulty air conditioning system probably would not, even if those problems affect multiple vehicles. (There are sometimes Technical Service Bulletins to advise shops how to correct those kinds of common problems, and occasionally automakers will pay for those repairs outside of warranty, too.)

Recalls are not legally required for design defects that don’t impact safety, even if potentially costly to the consumer. (That’s where a class action lawsuit might step in from a civil liability standpoint).

Ford figured that if the software patch allowed the car to still be drivable, even at reduced speed, this would be sufficient from a safety standpoint. It now appears that NHTSA may disagree and may require a hardware recall.

 

[heisnuts]

Drop off in sales? You've examined the sales of Mach-Es, Lightnings, and E-Transit vans?

Mach-E sales were down in Q2, but line was shutdown. Lightning sales more than doubled. E Transit vans sales were up almost 64%. In total, electric vehicles sales for the first half of 2023 were up over 2022 but a little, and had the line not been down they would have been up more.

I don't know if the total number of EVs sold justify the huge expense a typical dealer has to invest to be EV certified. As you know Ford is scaling back the production numbers as they are seeing the EVs starting to pile up on dealer lots. The MME already has over 100 day supply of inventory, which does not bode well for future sale numbers. Looking at the sales chart you provided, Ford has sold more ICE Mustangs this year than the MME, and if you look at total EVs, Ford has only sold 238 more EVs this entire year vs the ICE Mustang.

 

[RickMachE]

I don't know if the total number of EVs sold justify the huge expense a typical dealer has to invest to be EV certified. As you know Ford is scaling back the production numbers as they are seeing the EVs starting to pile up on dealer lots. The MME already has over 100 day supply of inventory, which does not bode well for future sale numbers. Looking at the sales chart you provided, Ford has sold more ICE Mustangs this year than the MME, and if you look at total EVs, Ford has only sold 238 more EVs this entire year vs the ICE Mustang.

Right. The question is with the plant now fully operational, how does the rest of the year go. And how does the 2024 ICE Mustang impact the comparative sales.

From a dealership's perspective, either you join the EV push or you wait until 2027 to see how things shake out. That's 3 years (2024 - 2026) where you can't sell any EVs. I wouldn't want to be in that position as a dealer.

 

[kennethjk]

If people are wondering why Ford only issued a software recall for this issue, it is because it was (1) way cheaper than replacing units, and (2) all that Ford hoped would be legally required.

Vehicle recalls are only legally required for defects which “pose a risk to motor vehicle safety.” Consumer Reports has a good article which explains it thusly:



Recalls are not legally required for design defects that don’t impact safety, even if potentially costly to the consumer. (That’s where a class action lawsuit might step in from a civil liability standpoint).

Ford figured that if the software patch allowed the car to still be drivable, even at reduced speed, this would be sufficient from a safety standpoint. It now appears that NHTSA may disagree and may require a hardware recall.

I don’t think anyone is wondering why they did it. That’s simple as you state.

unfortunately it’s short sighted.

 

[KevinS]

i wonder what the backstory here is. i think i read a recent profile of buttiegieg in which they said he drives an MME. maybe he went thru this debacle, who knows.

Indeed. Maybe he lurks on the forum, who knows.

 

[astrorob]

Why does there have to be a backstory? People file complaints with NHTSA, they look into them, and find credibility, so they up the investigation. Happens all the time, without a cabinet member having the issue.

well i didn't mean to imply anything nefarious or corruption, i just wonder if he's a MME super-lurker.

 

[ZombieJester]

I filed a complaint yesterday since I am currently going through this mess. Woke up to an email from an investigator today. Wasn't expecting that fast of a turnaround.

 

[rachitsh]

I heard after your third HVBJB you get a free sub, now that's government at work

So build back the same but this time feed better?

 

[KevinS]

I filed a complaint yesterday since I am currently going through this mess. Woke up to an email from an investigator today. Wasn't expecting that fast of a turnaround.

That's encouraging news. I definitely think people who are going through the specific problem should file a complaint.

There was at one time an effort for people to lodge complaints who had not personally experienced the problem with their vehicle, which was (and still is) IMO sorely misguided.

 

[Neil4Real]

That's encouraging news. I definitely think people who are going through the specific problem should file a complaint.

There was at one time an effort for people to lodge complaints who had not personally experienced the problem with their vehicle, which was (and still is) IMO sorely misguided.

Yeah, I’m not even sure how that’s allowed. When I filed my complaint, it asks the day the safety incident happened.

I also received an email from an investigator today after I filed a complaint yesterday.

 

[dtbaker61]

The forums are not a valid cross section of Mach-e owners. The vast majority of owners experiencing an HVBJB failure are going to be angry and upset. They’ll take the car to the dealer and it gets fixed. They move on. If it happens again they may get real angry and might simply move on to another car. Others will get it fixed a second time because perhaps they had the original part as a replacement. Others have the Bullwinkle outlook. Most folks will sell, get a new car or or relegate this one to the back burner until they can afford or need to dump it. Very, very few will actually file a complaint.

The Bullwinkle outlook:

 

[Ford Motor Company]

My 2021 Mach-E is my wife's daily driver, with a 90 mile round trip commute.
We got the software update, and still got the HVBJB error. Car was drivable in reduced power mode, HVBJB was replaced.
Got the failure again about a month ago, car was still drivable with reduced power, and the HVBJV was replaced a second time. We were past the 36k mile warranty, so thankfully this is covered under the 100k mile drivetrain warranty.
Hoping that HVBJB #3 is the charm, but not holding my breath.
I mean, it's not like the battery connection is a big deal in an EV, right?

Hi Jeff! I can look into your Mach-E's reduced power concern on my end. To get started, could you please send a private message over with the name/location of your local Ford dealer and your Mach-E's VIN?

 

[DevSecOps]

It's just one part, but you have to remove the entire battery pack to replace it. If they can get away with just fixing the failed parts as they fail, its WAAAAY cheaper than replacing the relay in the entire fleet of Mach-Es, even if some of them fail again. They are just trying to get us to the end of the 8 year/100k warranty without breaking the bank.

I've bookmarked your message so that when you have failure on a Sunday, with the entire family on vacation, 200 miles from home, where Ford roadside won't do anything because of distance and there's no rental cars available I can point back and say, "they just wanted to save money".

Ford's failure to engineer or build a critical component correctly should not be my burden or the burden of any owner. Full stop.

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