Tesla Supercharger access now stated as February 2024 (by Tesla)

[ChasingCoral]

The question is whether you will have to use the Tesla app if you paid for the membership to get a discounted rate, since Ford can't do it with EA.

Charge Assist does not currently hold any information on outside memberships. If you have discount programs they will only operate in the manner established by the charging company.

So far, no external discounts I know of work with Charge Assist or FordPass.
So far, the only external discount I know of working with Plug & Charge is EVGo because they don't use the normal P&G standard.
In all other cases you have to use your account sign in through the company's own app.

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[Billyk24]

Can Ford do an OTA update on our center screen to show charging details as Tesla does? Would/could should an OTA carry plug and charge details so we dont ned an app?

 

[Billyk24]

Can Ford do an OTA update on our center screen to show charging details as Tesla does? Would/could should an OTA carry plug and charge details so we dont ned an app?

 

[DevSecOps]

Can Ford do an OTA update on our center screen to show charging details as Tesla does? Would/could should an OTA carry plug and charge details so we dont ned an app?

With Tesla you'll need to have the app at least to setup the payment side of things and you might also need it to initiate the charge session. That's yet to be seen. There's nothing that I've seen that says it will be P&C at this time, but it might end up being.

Tesla does not have CC or NFC on their units. Is it possible that Ford will have it as part of their new charge assist thing... maybe. We just don't know.

 

[AhardFSU]

Can Ford do an OTA update on our center screen to show charging details as Tesla does? Would/could should an OTA carry plug and charge details so we dont ned an app?

The certificates carry the authorization for P&C payment. Those certificates are stored in the vehicle and charger. There is no OTA that will be used to carry P&C details.

 

[dbsb3233]

Probably.

EvGO allows to plug and charge just by communicating with the car, getting the VIN (I assume) and matching it to the EvGO records and the stored credit card information and charge this card. I don't think that any integration with FordPass or any other Ford back systems is happening in the process, and frankly, I'd like to see this kind of integration from more charging providers, including Tesla.

Correct. That's another possible method (I think EVgo calls theirs Autocharge). And Tesla could possibly decide to offer that function as well.

But Ford has already said that FP-Supercharger integration will be happening. That's likely considered the primary method for most since we all already FP and the Ford Wallet set up.

 

[DevSecOps]

Correct. That's another possible method. And Tesla could possibly decide to offer that function as well.

But Ford has already said that FP-Supercharger integration will be happening. That's likely considered the primary method for most since we all already FP and the Ford Wallet set up.

The problem with Supercharger access for non-Tesla's is that it will be, guaranteed, the most expensive charging out there per kW. Therefore, if you travel frequently and you want to use the SC network you'll want to pay for the membership, which Ford will not likely support natively.

 

[dbsb3233]

IF I have to buy an adapter, I'd like to use my Ford Pass points please.

I would guess you can. Pretty sure I remember them saying the adapters would be made available through the normal Ford Parts chain.

 

[NathanZ]

If it's not free. Where should we buy from, Tesla's website or Ford's website. Is there any clear message now that we need to pay it? Only two months left, I don't think Ford is ready to sell the adapter.

 

[dbsb3233]

The problem with Supercharger access for non-Tesla's is that it will be, guaranteed, the most expensive charging out there per kW. Therefore, if you travel frequently and you want to use the SC network you'll want to pay for the membership, which Ford will not likely support natively.

Their membership is kinda pricey too though. $12.99/mo. Seems to offer a 10c/kWh discount in most instances. So 130 kWh to break even. Roughly 3 typical road trip charges.

But, as you said, SCs are usually more expensive than EA. So we'll keep using EA as our primary and only use SCs as backup, in which case we probably won't do 3 chargers there in a trip, and won't buy the membership.

Having to use the adapter, and the short cord/tie up two spots issue are other downsides that will probably relegate SCs to backups for us.

 

[alexgorod]

The problem with Supercharger access for non-Tesla's is that it will be, guaranteed, the most expensive charging out there per kW. Therefore, if you travel frequently and you want to use the SC network you'll want to pay for the membership, which Ford will not likely support natively.

Good point.

For me, as an occasional traveler, the ability to use SC in addition to CCS will decrease stress level and increase the chance that I will use BEV instead of ICE for my trips. As it is, charging at a fast charger is not cheaper than buying gas for a compact crossover.

 

[dbsb3233]

If it's not free. Where should we buy from, Tesla's website or Ford's website. Is there any clear message now that we need to pay it? Only two months left, I don't think Ford is ready to sell the adapter.

Per some of the early announcements, it sounds like Tesla will manufacturer the adapter and act as a supplier to Ford Parts. We'd buy them from Ford Parts. At least that was the early indication. Could still change.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

Probably.

EvGO allows to plug and charge just by communicating with the car, getting the VIN (I assume) and matching it to the EvGO records and the stored credit card information and charge this card. I don't think that any integration with FordPass or any other Ford back systems is happening in the process, and frankly, I'd like to see this kind of integration from more charging providers, including Tesla.

The "Transport Evolved" YouTube channel did an interview with EVgo ... and they talked about how their version of plug & charge, which they call Autocharge+, works.

There has long been a standard for allowing IP-based (Internet Protocol) data networking to work over power line. CCS1 uses this for communication between the charging station and the car.

From what I gathered, they don't actually use the VIN number of the car at all (it is probably not part of the data). But they do use two different things that create a pretty unique "fingerprint" of an individual car. This allows them to provide the Autocharge experience to most any EV driver without needing to work with each manufacturer to make it work.

First ... CCS allows for some flexibility of what sort of data is included in the packets and how those packets are formatted. So... there are some generic differences (basic format differences) in how packets are formed depending on the car maker (e.g. Ford, GM, VW, etc.) and just by looking at how the data packets were formatted you can tell which brand car is connected to your station.

Second ... since it is IP-based communication, at the hardware level, every network adapter has to have a hardware address. I'd like to say that address is unique and never changes -- but that's not technically true. But they are fairly unique and it is extremely unlikely that they would ever change.

This means if you combine the packet formate (which helps you narrow it down to a specific manufacturer) with the network address of the car (which is probably unique on it's own), you now have a "fingerprint" that makes your car unique.

EVgo doesn't go through Ford. They totally do their own thing. You use the EVgo app and tell it you want to enroll your car in Autocharge+. They'll have you go to an EVgo station, tell the app you want to enroll, it needs to know WHICH station you are using, and then you plug in your car and it gets the unique identification information to associate that car to your account.

In the future ... you can just plug in without using the app and you'll be billed for the session.



For Ford's relationship with Tesla ... the newer Tesla stations (Gen 3 & 4) use the CCS communication protocol. But older stations did not. This is why we wont have access to older Tesla stations -- they don't speak CCS.

The notion that Tesla can allow some brands of non-Tesla cars and block others ... suggests they probably have a back-channel to Ford. If the article is correct ... what's to stop _every_ EV from using their stations on the day they open it to their first partner?

It would be nice if we had a plug & charge experience.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

If it's not free. Where should we buy from, Tesla's website or Ford's website. Is there any clear message now that we need to pay it? Only two months left, I don't think Ford is ready to sell the adapter.

I believe they said the adapters would be sold via the https://accessories.ford.com/ website.

Since Tesla already uses the CCS communication protocol, the adapter really only needs to make the physical layout of the plug. I don't think it should need any logic in the adapter. This would make it relativity easy to produce.

 

[dbsb3233]

So far, the only external discount I know of working with Plug & Charge is EVGo because they don't use the normal P&G standard.

This is where there's a lot of confusion on the terminology. There's actual Ford Plug&Charge (which is part of Connected Services via people's Ford account/FordPass), and then there's the generic functionality of being able to pull up, plug in, and have it automatically start charging. EVgo calls theirs Autocharge+, Ford calls their Plug&Charge, others may use other names.

But many here are just referring to the generic function as Plug&Charge as well, which can make it confusing when one person is talking about the Ford system and another is talking the generic function.

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