40 Mach E competitors. Why did everyone have the same SUV idea at the same time??

[Mach1E]

There are currently 40 different BEV SUVs out there and growing in the US. https://www.motortrend.com/features...rce=braze&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=print

I’m afraid that manufacturers are all going after the same small market at the same time and cannibalizing each other.

Why not more……. Other vehicles??

40 SUVs
Like 3 trucks?
I think 9 sedans (but most are very expensive luxury ones)
I think zero coupes (but maybe 2 upcoming)

The automotive market is much larger than midsize SUVs…


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[garyd9]

I'm not sure they're cannibalizing each other as much as your message suggests. You have every possible size/range of SUV/CUV in the same list, but I doubt someone shopping for the Hummer is also looking at the Ionic 5.

As with passenger cars, SUV/CUV should be split between large, medium, and small vehicles, and between different budget levels.

 

[zvez]

but suvs and crossovers seem to be the biggest sellers in ICE as well. Although here in GA it actually seems to be the oversized pickup truck

I would love to see a nice little EV roadster similar to the Elise based roadster that tesla made years ago (and launched into space). Unfortunately they will be priced way out of my range.

 

[Tampamike]

You gotta give the people what they want.

Florida - the state bird is a Ford Raptor.

 

[Blue highway]

I suspect a few things have driven this...

• Small SUVs dominate new car sales... and there is margin in them (and trucks) and not in sedans... if you are going into the electric market, go with a segment that is hot. (from NADA)
• Packaging a large battery is easier in a tall car than in a sedan or something smaller.
• The Model Y is the best selling car in the world... and catching some of that business looks attractive. When the design decisions were made for current cars (2018 - 2021 generally) the market was not as saturated with "me too" offerings as it is now.

 

[david_quick]

There are currently 40 different BEV SUVs out there and growing in the US. https://www.motortrend.com/features...rce=braze&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=print

I’m afraid that manufacturers are all going after the same small market at the same time and cannibalizing each other.

Why not more……. Other vehicles??

40 SUVs
Like 3 trucks?
I think 9 sedans (but most are very expensive luxury ones)
I think zero coupes (but maybe 2 upcoming)

The automotive market is much larger than midsize SUVs…


Every Electric SUV and Crossover You Can Buy in 2024

• 2024 Acura ZDX
• 2024 Audi Q4 / Q4 Sportback E-Tron
• 2024 Audi Q6 / Q6 Sportback E-Tron
• 2024 Audi Q8 / Q8 Sportback E-Tron
• 2024 BMW iX
• 2025 Cadillac Lyriq
• 2024 Cadillac Optiq
• 2025 Cadillac Escalade IQ
• 2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV
• 2024 Chevrolet Equinox EV
• 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E
• 2024 Genesis GV60
• 2024 Genesis GV70 Electric
• 2024 GMC Hummer EV SUV
• 2024 Honda Prologue
• 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5
• 2024 Hyundai Kona Electric
• 2024 Hyundai Nexo
• 2024 Jaguar I-Pace
• 2025 Jeep Wagoneer S
• 2024 Kia EV6
• 2024 Kia EV9
• 2024 Kia Niro EV
• 2024 Lexus RZ
• 2025 Lotus Eletre
• 2024 Mercedes-Benz EQB-Class
• 2024 Mercedes-Benz EQE-Class
• 2024 Mercedes-Benz EQS-Class SUV
• 2024 Nissan Ariya
• 2024 Polestar 3
• 2025 Porsche Macan Electric
• 2024 Rivian R1S
• 2025 Lucid Gravity
• 2024 Subaru Solterra
• 2024 Tesla Model Y
• 2024 Tesla Model X
• 2024 Toyota bZ4X
• 2024 VinFast VF8
• 2024 Volkswagen ID4
• 2024 Volvo EX30
• 2025 Volvo EX90
• 2024 Volvo XC40 and C40 Recharge

I think it has more to do with what is selling in the general industry and that would be SUVs and CUVs. So if it’s not a truck the next best seller is this form factor.

 

[bbulkow]

First, that list shows it's not "really" 40. The Rivian and the Bronco aren't in the same category as the BR4ZX and Mustang. Crossover and SUV are not the same thing, a Lincoln Navigator and a Subaru Outback are not the same thing.

Second, the "hatchback" / "station wagon" form factor has always been insanely practical. Compared to the sedan, with it's too far trunk, segmented. Can't put a dog there. A car maker might bring out models *and* a crossover / SUV, but they wouldn't *not* do that shape when introducing a new platform.

Third, BEV makers need to prioritize aerodynamic shapes. The pickup is not an aerodynamic shape, the sedan is also not as good. That's why the Prius has no sedan version.

There appear to be no coupes because of either the price, size, or weight of the battery. Since the roadster. My partner is waiting for a good two-seater before jumping in, that's always been her favorite form. As batteries start coming in more form factors and more flexible packaging, and car makers get comfortable with cooling / heating, we'll start seeing more difference.

I was shocked when I opened up the machE and found all the STUFF under the hood. I hadn't realized till then all the complexity of the heating cooling systems - and how big the motors are. The motor weight and size is only comparable to an ICE if you get a single-motor version - which restricts (for the moment) small two-seaters. You'll end up with something like the Taycan which is larger than its ICE brothers, and has fairly poor performance and/or battery compared to its brothers. This will all change as we go through some engineering evolution.

 

[AtomicInternet]

Ford didn't stop making compact cars/sedans for no reason, there just wasn't any profit in them.

I'm sure the MachE was starting development the same time they said "no more cars" so SUV was the only (financially smart) choice.

To be honest, the MachE looks more like a car to me anyway which I like. I think calling it an SUV just puts it on everyone's radar.

And keep in mind, China now has sub $10k EVs that Ford is racing to compete with, hence their proposed under $30k EV they plan to launch which may mark a return to cars/sedans.

Ford CEO: $30,000 EV coming in two and a half years, at a profit (cnbc.com)

Farley said Americans need to “get back in love” with small cars instead of larger ones, a surprising statement given a majority or Ford’s profits come from trucks.

 

[ChehRob]

In the '40s about everyone drove a sedan or coupe, 50s/60s families had station wagons. Later as some people wanted big herkie vehicles they got pickups and massive SUVs, often truck based. Then people in the US realized they liked the higher seating of a SUV, the storage capacity of a hatchback, some wanted AWD, 4 doors, and the looks of the Honda/Toyota versions. And important, people did not want a massive vehicle. Also old folks found them easier to get in and get out.

ps - I'd bet that below $30K Ford will be a smaller simpler version of MME.

 

[Dear_OP]

Remember when there was no such thing as an SUV or CUV? Folks were lumbering around in truck based Ford Broncos or GMC Jimmys.
Well you can thank old Croc Dundee himself who showed up in a jacked up Subaru wagon with plastic cladding in the early 90s.

 

[Mach1E]

Ford didn't stop making compact cars/sedans for no reason, there just wasn't any profit in them.

I'm sure the MachE was starting development the same time they said "no more cars" so SUV was the only (financially smart) choice.

To be honest, the MachE looks more like a car to me anyway which I like. I think calling it an SUV just puts it on everyone's radar.

And keep in mind, China now has sub $10k EVs that Ford is racing to compete with, hence their proposed under $30k EV they plan to launch which may mark a return to cars/sedans.

Ford CEO: $30,000 EV coming in two and a half years, at a profit (cnbc.com)

It seems really shortsighted of these companies though.

Yes, sedans and coupes are a smaller market than SUVs and crossovers.

But it’s simple math-

Would you rather have a 2.5% market share (1/40th) of the SUV market, or a 50-100% share of the coupe market?

The 40 models are the reason why BEV sales per model have stalled.

The number of new vehicles coming out exceeds the growth of the market as a whole.

Reminds me of the economics project we did in college years ago. Each day each team had to decide which product to produce and how to price it. Then we each got a share of that market. Of every went for the “luxury” market the same day, we all got killed. If you ended up in a market by yourself, you did great.

 

[Mach1E]

I'm not sure they're cannibalizing each other as much as your message suggests. You have every possible size/range of SUV/CUV in the same list, but I doubt someone shopping for the Hummer is also looking at the Ionic 5.

As with passenger cars, SUV/CUV should be split between large, medium, and small vehicles, and between different budget levels.

The sales numbers do suggest they’re cannibalizing each other though.

Especially since the 40 models are really only fighting over 50% of the BEV SUv market (Tesla Model Y owns the other half).

I just don’t feel like there is a big enough BEV SUV market to sustain this many models.

It’s why some of them are already failing and 39 of the 40 are losing TONS of money for the manufacturers.

 

[SonicBlue]

To be honest, the MachE looks more like a car to me anyway which I like. I think calling it an SUV just puts it on everyone's radar.

Agreed. Maybe because of the length of the hood? It’s basically a car which sits a little higher with a raised roofline and better trunk space. Very much a “crossover.” Certainly not a big or boxy SUV. For me, it’s the perfect size. I didn’t want a sedan, and I also didn’t want a “compact SUV.”

 

[HuntingPudel]

Remember when there was no such thing as an SUV or CUV? Folks were lumbering around in truck based Ford Broncos or GMC Jimmys.
Well you can thank old Croc Dundee himself who showed up in a jacked up Subaru wagon with plastic cladding in the early 90s.

Well, my 1st Generation K/5 is an SUV. Back then SUVs pretty much were station wagons on truck running gear. About the only things that weren’t 1950s (or older) technology on it were the progressive 4 barrel carburetor and the front disc brakes. Comparing that ’72 to my ‘68 Coupe de Ville is like comparing a hand-thrown spear to a Nike missile. ??

 

[Blue highway]

It seems really shortsighted of these companies though.

Yes, sedans and coupes are a smaller market than SUVs and crossovers.

But it’s simple math-

Would you rather have a 2.5% market share (1/40th) of the SUV market, or a 50-100% share of the coupe market?

The 40 models are the reason why BEV sales per model have stalled.

The number of new vehicles coming out exceeds the growth of the market as a whole.

Reminds me of the economics project we did in college years ago. Each day each team had to decide which product to produce and how to price it. Then we each got a share of that market. Of every went for the “luxury” market the same day, we all got killed. If you ended up in a market by yourself, you did great.

easy answer... They would rather have some market share of cars that can be sold profitably (SUV) vs all of a market that can't be sold at a profit... that is why Ford and GM left (or mostly left) the sedan market.

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