Are other EVs this bad?

[LudlowLawyer]

The actual (real) range depends on a bunch of things.

1. External temperature. 55 degrees shouldn't be a problem.
2. Climate use. Heating is much worse than cooling. Again, at 55 degrees shouldn't be a problem, unless you've set heating to sauna level.
3. Road conditions. Wet roads are somewhat worse than dry.
4. Speed. Highway driving is somewhat worse than surface streets.
5. Road elevation. Going uphill is much worse than going downhill, but you aren't always going uphill, so it should balance out.
6. Driving style. If you are always driving like a bat out of hell, you range will suffer. I drive like an old lady, so my range fluctuates between 300 and 350, compared to 265 on the sticker.

If you have a problem with 12V battery discharging, it probably has nothing to do with putting the car on a charger. In a little over 3 years I had my 2021, I went through 4 battery replacements. In 2004 I had a completely dead battery after 3 weeks of ownership. And that wasn't EV. When you get to the car, if it doesn't start, try resetting BMS by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, and then have the battery checked (do this even if it starts).

Thanks for the info - especially on your 12v experience. That context is helpful.

Regarding the range - I think what I need to do a better job of is preconditioning. I never use cabin heat, and have no desire to enter a NASCAR race with my driving style.

I drive a 2021 eRWD premium. Bought it off a lot new back in '21 and love the car.

1. You're in a town of Ludlow? All Ludlows I've found are in cold weather areas. No, range loss shouldn't be 30% at under 60 degrees, but I lose about 30% of range on the coldest days in Virginia. Oh, and the guess o meter will always leave you wondering. Learn your m/Kwh. Summer I get 3.0/3.5 driving conservatively. Winter, I see about 2.2/2.4 unless I'm driving fast freeways where it'll drop to 1.8 or so. Don't ever expect the guess o meter to be accurate. Driving conditions change constantly.

2. IFord chargers were $700 when I bought and the early reports were horrible. There are plenty of chargers out there. I went with Juicebox, which pulled out of the US this year. Not very happy, but the charger has never had an issue.

3. One thing you learn when you try to connect with Ford is that it's very dependent on who you speak to. Of course, you can charge your car when you are not standing right next to it. I know certain ev's like the Lightning have the ability to provide power from their battery. This isn't the case with the Mach e though. There's no way you should be able to drain a battery when charging. I'd have that right into the dealership. Have you tried to replicate the issue? Is it possible the alert was for the 12v battery?

4. I've found the best customer service to be from finding the right dealer who will write it up to satisfy Ford or, believe it or not, from the Ford team that monitors this forum.

Good luck. It's been a great car. I hope you have the opportunity to enjoy it.

I'm actually not a Ludlow resident, and I'm not a lawyer. A friend of mine was both, and he sadly died a couple of years ago - went into the hospital with covid and never came out. Great guy too - the screen name is a way I remember him. But ya, Ludlow is cold! I live in the mid-atlantic.

I return to the car from my trip tonight (I'm actually in Ludlow at the moment). I agree - I need to get the car diagnosed as much as possible when I get home.

Thanks so much for the great info - much appreciated!

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[ChasingCoral]

I actually haven't returned from my trip yet. I'm kinda dreading dealing with a dead, locked car late at night tonight in a cold airport pay garage. At least I won't have my family with me too.

To your point - I'm definitely going to take the car in to get as much info as possible.

The airport has 150 well maintained free L2 chargers in it's pay garage.

The door wasn't left open - I was in no rush, the spaces aren't wide, and there were cars on both sides. I would have had to purposely try to leave the door open in such a situation.

You still haven’t responded to the various questions. Which battery did the alert say was draining?

 

[dbsb3233]

Could it be that the charge failure was a symptom of the 12 v dying? Perhaps you’re 12v was on its last legs, unbeknownst to you (as usually happens), and then it died shortly after you plugged the car and left.

Yep, that's the way a dead battery usually works. It's not a "lose it's juice all at once" thing. It's the voltage slowly declining to the point that the car's components won't function properly (or eventually, at all). Especially computerized components (which is most of the car now).

In the old days, we'd see signs of a low 12v battery from slow cranking of the starter, and dim incandescent lights. The radio might still work because they had a better tolerance and would still work at low-ish voltage.

But today's computerized electronics are much more sensitive to low voltage. The computers start showing goofy readings an can throw weird (and misleading) error messages. Even our 2013 Escape would do that when the battery got low. "Hill Start Assist Failure" showing on the dash was a sure sign that the 12v battery was low.

The Mach-E systems seem to start flaking out slightly below 12v, from what I've noticed from my cigarette lighter volt meter. The battery normally reads around 12.3-12.8 when not being charged, ~13.5 during a trickle charge, and ~14.5 during a full charge. When you start getting multiple weird messages or functions failing, the first thing to suspect is a low 12v battery causing the computers to kick out erroneous messages for things that really aren't broken.

 

[ChehRob]

Tesla has a warning the low voltage battery needs to be replaced, but my kid tells me when you get that warning it is almost too late.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

I'm all for tearing into trolls. Heck, I will lead the charge! But to everyone here, this is seemingly not a troll.

While it is something that has not been widely reported on, it is 100% feasible to plug in to charge and have the 12v die. Two things I have personally seen are bad chargers and not fully plugging in the charge handle. Both will keep the vehicle awake without charging and thus kill the 12v.

 

[Dear_OP]

These are typical teething issues of a new model. It is compounded due to new EV tech for Ford (any any automakers). Hyundai, Kia, VW, GM, Polestar etc forums are littered with issues. Early Teslas were rolling testbeds.

That said, Tesla is a couple of gens ahead now with iterative improvements. Similarly, many Chinese EV companies have shorter lifecycle. Their lifecycle is about 18mth vs 4-5year refreshes of traditional ICE automakers. That allows them to quickly apply improvements each time. Employing Software Defined Vehicle framework is critical.

I hope Ford will get there soon. MME was a good solid 1st despite flawed effort. It will get better! Well unless Ford reverts to ICE and PHEV in reaction to new government priorities.

 

[dbsb3233]

These are typical teething issues of a new model. It is compounded due to new EV tech for Ford (any any automakers). Hyundai, Kia, VW, GM, Polestar etc forums are littered with issues. Early Teslas were rolling testbeds.

That said, Tesla is a couple of gens ahead now with iterative improvements. Similarly, many Chinese EV companies have shorter lifecycle. Their lifecycle is about 18mth vs 4-5year refreshes of traditional ICE automakers. That allows them to quickly apply improvements each time. Employing Software Defined Vehicle framework is critical.

I hope Ford will get there soon. MME was a good solid 1st despite flawed effort. It will get better! Well unless Ford reverts to ICE and PHEV in reaction to new government priorities.

Agreed, although I'd tweak that last part just a bit. They're reverting (somewhat) to ICE and PHEV mostly because of high EV costs. I've sure they'll push more into EVs more when they can figure out how to get the manufacturing costs competitive (true cost, not relying on flighty $7500 tax credits). But they're still quite a ways away.

 

[MonkeyNutz]

One of the parking garages at the airport here in Tulsa has chargers for their customers. It is definitely a thing

FINE and Canopy parking companies at the Denver airport will charge your EV for you, if you use their valet service. I know they and others do so as well at other airports. It hardly costs any more to do the valet than it does for covered parking, so it's a no-brainer.

 

[Ahlarict]

I'm all for tearing into trolls. Heck, I will lead the charge! But to everyone here, this is seemingly not a troll.

While it is something that has not been widely reported on, it is 100% feasible to plug in to charge and have the 12v die. Two things I have personally seen are bad chargers and not fully plugging in the charge handle. Both will keep the vehicle awake without charging and thus kill the 12v.

Yep - there was a whole thread on how this seems to happen with certain revisions of either the MME charger-related code or Grizzl-e's Duo charger:

I’m having issues when I schedule my 2021 Mach-E to charge overnight. I’m using a Grizzl-E Duo charger. When I plug in the charger with the car programmed to start later at midnight, it will immediately start the charger and then stop it, cycling back and forth. I can see this on my Ford Pass app where it says “starting charger” and then “waiting to charge”. This cycling back and forth then drains the 12V battery and I get the “Electrical System Drain Service Required” message. I’ve taken it to the dealer twice and each time they replaced the BCM (Body Control Module) but the problem persists. I then thought it was the charger and got a new Grizzl-E Duo and am still getting the same problem. At this point I don’t know if it is the car or the charger. Does anyone else have a Grizzl-e Duo charger that works with the Mach-E? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[ipca204]

I'm all for tearing into trolls. Heck, I will lead the charge! But to everyone here, this is seemingly not a troll.

While it is something that has not been widely reported on, it is 100% feasible to plug in to charge and have the 12v die. Two things I have personally seen are bad chargers and not fully plugging in the charge handle. Both will keep the vehicle awake without charging and thus kill the 12v.

It is also "feasible" for you to plug in to charge and have a heart attack...I could go on...but I doubt you will even see my point..

 

[Thesnowback]

Love my Mach-E, dealer has been solid too. Winter range hit sucks, but is part of the deal.

 

[Snakebitten]

Agreed, although I'd tweak that last part just a bit. They're reverting (somewhat) to ICE and PHEV mostly because of high EV costs. I've sure they'll push more into EVs more when they can figure out how to get the manufacturing costs competitive (true cost, not relying on flighty $7500 tax credits). But they're still quite a ways away.

I know it's too long for the bandwidth limited audience, AND there are many who won't stomach any respect for Farley, but it does leave the impression that more is going on at Ford regarding EV's than the consumer would be aware of. Ford is not the dormant, behind the scenes.

 

[dbsb3233]

I know it's too long for the bandwidth limited audience, AND there are many who won't stomach any respect for Farley, but it does leave the impression that more is going on at Ford regarding EV's than the consumer would be aware of. Ford is not the dormant, behind the scenes.

Oh yeah, they've still got $billions sunk into Blue Oval City (TN/KY) and Blue Oval Battery Park (MI). They'll be using those cells for a lot more than hybrids. And of course there's the skunkworks team *trying* to develop low cost EVs. And the existing MME/Lightning/eTransit lines that are still going. (Plus a bit more going in Europe.) This isn't an all-or-nothing thing, just a less-than-previously-planned thing. With more shift to hybrids this decade than previously planned.

 

[DonM]

> a new 2024 extended range Mach E Premium!

Looks like we have the same car. I got 2 of them in November, and dumped my 2 teslas.

> range under 200 miles

My 2019 telsa model 3 would get 70% EPA range in winter (so about 210 mi), and even less if I was driving slowly, like on a 1-hour commute in traffic. Why less when driving slowly? Because it spent all that energy heating the cabin while sitting there, in addition to the battery needing to heat itself.

My Mach-e's seem about the same as that. We missed out on the 2025 heat pump version, but I wasn't willing to wait or pay extra. The 2024s came with $11,000 off (each) at my dealer.

Going forward, I fully expect the range to go back up. Even this winter, on some drives I get up to 3.5 mi/kwh which would be 318 mi range for the 91kwh battery. To be sure, often I get 2.5 mi/kwh or 227 range. Under 200 though? No. If I change only to 80% and then start a drive, sure it might say under 200 but that's from 80%.

I wouldn't worry about it, there's a lot of great stuff about this car.

 

[Blue highway]

I researched. I didn’t see anything about charges sometimes draining your battery. Learned the hard way.

The charger did not drain your battery... It may have failed to charge, but it did not drain your battery.

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