Charging Speeds between EVSE Brands

[KevinS]

I probably paid too much for my setup, but between rebates and peace of mind, it seemed silly to fret over a couple of hundred dollars of savings for something that plugs in at high voltage to a $50,000ish vehicle.

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[ARK]

First of all, you need a new electrician. The NEMA 14-50 outlet is rated for 50 amps, not 60 amps. You should replace that 60 amp breaker with a 50 amp breaker ASAP. In fact, your electrician should do it for free. It is a serious fire hazard.

Also, if the wire is only rated for 48 amps, a 60 amp breaker is even worse and definitely you need to get that fixed ASAP. Find out the size of the wire because you should not use wire rated for 48 amps on a NEMA 14-50 plug. The wire should be rated for 125% of the circuit breaker size. So if you have a 50 amp breaker like you should, your wire should be rated at 62.5 amps. If your wire is rated at 48 amps you need a 40 amp breaker instead of a 50 amp breaker.

You may never exceed 48 amps, but if for strange reason you do, you need that breaker to protect you and your home from disaster. You really need to fix this ASAP. I am concerned for your safety. Seriously. What else did that incompetent electrician do incorrectly?

To answer your question about the plug, the plug should be rated at 125% of the expected load on the circuit per the National Electric Code (NEC). If you are following the NEC, the load should not exceed 40 amps, which is why plugged EVs usually only allow 40 amps. Personally I think it should be OK to exceed the 125% rule if you have the proper 50 amp circuit breaker installed. The breaker will protect the circuit. If you try to draw 48 amps for a period of time, the 50 amp breaker will probably throw and break the circuit, because of the 125% rule. But the 60 amp breaker will not. Get it fixed!!!!

Thank you for this, I wasn’t totally clear, he said he put in wiring capable of handling 60amps because I told him I wanted the ability to charge at 48amps. But I think that can’t be true if there is literally no such thing as a NEC compliant socket capable of being rated at up to 60amps, if I am understanding @cdale12 correctly.

He actually initially wanted to do a 50amp plug in set up with the assumption I would charge at 40amps, but he changed things up when I told him I wanted the install to be rated for up to 60amps for future proofing purposes, so I could charge at up to 48amps in the future. He actually put in a 50amp breaker but switched it out to 60amp after I said this. But he didn’t redo the wiring from the panel to the socket, said he already put in 60amp capable wiring from what I had initially told him about future proofing.

 

[cdale12]

Thank you for this, I wasn’t totally clear, he said he put in wiring capable of handling 60amps because I told him I wanted the ability to charge at 48amps. But I think that can’t be true if there is literally no such thing as a NEC compliant socket capable of being rated at up to 60amps, if I am understanding @cdale12 correctly.

He actually initially wanted to do a 50amp plug in set up with the assumption I would charge at 40amps, but he changed things up when I told him I wanted the install to be rated for up to 60amps for future proofing purposes, so I could charge at up to 48amps in the future. He actually put in a 50amp breaker but switched it out to 60amp after I said this. But he didn’t redo the wiring from the panel to the socket, said he already put in 60amp capable wiring from what I had initially told him about future proofing.

Actually, NEC circuit breaker sizing is (100% of non-continuous loads + 125% of continuous loads). That means a circuit using 48A continuously uses a 60A circuit breaker. You can use copper 6AWG THWN-65A @ 75C or THHN-75A @ 90C. You need 4AWG if you're using TW or UF wire.

If you are only using 40A, you should use a 50A breaker and stick with the 6AWG wiring.

 

[mkhuffman]

Thank you for this, I wasn’t totally clear, he said he put in wiring capable of handling 60amps because I told him I wanted the ability to charge at 48amps. But I think that can’t be true if there is literally no such thing as a NEC compliant socket capable of being rated at up to 60amps, if I am understanding @cdale12 correctly.

He actually initially wanted to do a 50amp plug in set up with the assumption I would charge at 40amps, but he changed things up when I told him I wanted the install to be rated for up to 60amps for future proofing purposes, so I could charge at up to 48amps in the future. He actually put in a 50amp breaker but switched it out to 60amp after I said this. But he didn’t redo the wiring from the panel to the socket, said he already put in 60amp capable wiring from what I had initially told him about future proofing.

Ok, so at least the wiring sounds like it is good if he sized it for a 60 amp breaker. I have heard there is such a thing as a 14-60 outlet but I have never seen one and probably that is not what the electrician installed. Is it a 14-50 or 14-60 outlet? It should be stamped into the plastic on the front. If it is a 14-50, definitely you need a 50 amp breaker. If it is a 14-60, and assuming the right size wire, then he did it correctly.

 

[Carsinmyblood]

The real question here is: Do I really NEED the bump from 30mph to 36mph?

About the only reason I can think of (other than to do a hit'n run charge while taking a power nap) would be to take advantage of lower night-time rates.

So, how low do the rates have to be below daytime rates to make the purchase of an additional charger better than break-even?

 

[ARK]

Ok, so at least the wiring sounds like it is good if he sized it for a 60 amp breaker. I have heard there is such a thing as a 14-60 outlet but I have never seen one and probably that is not what the electrician installed. Is it a 14-50 or 14-60 outlet? It should be stamped into the plastic on the front. If it is a 14-50, definitely you need a 50 amp breaker. If it is a 14-60, and assuming the right size wire, then he did it correctly.

Thanks again. I guess it is not correct, socket says NEMA 14-50R (rotated image below).

 

[mkhuffman]

Thanks again. I guess it is not correct, socket says NEMA 14-50R (rotated image below).

Well on a good note, that looks like a good industrial outlet, not one of the cheap box store ones like I installed. ?

 

[kennethjk]

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just double check to see if you are subject to AMT, depending on your tax circumstances you might not get the credit.

 

[mkhuffman]

Thanks again. I guess it is not correct, socket says NEMA 14-50R (rotated image below).

Is it possible that outlet is on a 50 amp breaker installed in the same box the outlet is in? The picture you provided looks like some sort of subpanel so maybe he ran a 60 amp circuit for a direct wired charger, and ran the outlet off a 50 amp breaker in that subpanel. If that is what he did, you are in good shape. That is exactly what I did, BTW.

 

[Maquis]

Ok, so at least the wiring sounds like it is good if he sized it for a 60 amp breaker. I have heard there is such a thing as a 14-60 outlet but I have never seen one and probably that is not what the electrician installed. Is it a 14-50 or 14-60 outlet? It should be stamped into the plastic on the front. If it is a 14-50, definitely you need a 50 amp breaker. If it is a 14-60, and assuming the right size wire, then he did it correctly.

A NEMA 14-60 is a real device. But as @cdale12 posted earlier, the NEC section regarding EVSEs requires 60A or greater to be hard-wired.

 

[ARK]

The real question here is: Do I really NEED the bump from 30mph to 36mph?

About the only reason I can think of (other than to do a hit'n run charge while taking a power nap) would be to take advantage of lower night-time rates.

So, how low do the rates have to be below daytime rates to make the purchase of an additional charger better than break-even?

I usually charge at 32amps, I once charged it at 48amps for a few hours when I had low battery, wasn’t already charging, and found out I’d be grabbing dinner with a buddy about 70 miles away roundtrip in a few hours time. It gave me enough juice to avoid a L3 charger somewhere along the way.

I agree it’s unnecessary for overnight charging (even 32amps is easily more than enough with the SR battery).

I only got the 48amp charger because of the rules my utility had for its EVSE install credit. I only tried (and apparently failed) to have it properly wired to deliver 48amps in the event several years from now batteries are 300 kWh capacity and 48amps would be necessary for a full overnight charge.

 

[kennethjk]

Is it possible that outlet is on a 50 amp breaker installed in the same box the outlet is in? The picture you provided looks like some sort of subpanel so maybe he ran a 60 amp circuit for a direct wired charger, and ran the outlet off a 50 amp breaker in that subpanel. If that is what he did, you are in good shape. That is exactly what I did, BTW.

Also what I have, same setup

 

[Maquis]

just double check to see if you are subject to AMT, depending on your tax circumstances you might not get the credit.

AMT is recoverable in later years. So you would eventually get the credit.

 

[kennethjk]

AMT is recoverable in later years. So you would eventually get the credit.

yes as long as you are out of AMT at some point, and I am not sure if all tax software programs track it so you have to remember in the future.

 

[Maquis]

That’s right……I had this situation about 15 years ago and had to manually enter it in TurboTax. Don’t know if it’s better today or not?

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