Charging Speeds between EVSE Brands

[ARK]

Is it possible that outlet is on a 50 amp breaker installed in the same box the outlet is in? The picture you provided looks like some sort of subpanel so maybe he ran a 60 amp circuit for a direct wired charger, and ran the outlet off a 50 amp breaker in that subpanel. If that is what he did, you are in good shape. That is exactly what I did, BTW.

The breaker in the main panel has a “60” on it. Picture below. I’m also posting a picture of the full wiring, it goes only a few feet from the panel (located immediately on the other side of the wall) to the outlet. Does the box with the outlet in it look like it may have been set up that way? He definitely changed it to a 60 amp breaker in the main panel after the inspection, lol.

 

[dbsb3233]

I know this goes against the "more is always better" sentiment most have for charging speed, but I do just the opposite. I have a 40A Grizzl-E on a 50A circuit, but I dialed it down to 24A. And I may even dial it down to 16A.

Even though I have a good-quality 14-50 outlet and rarely unplug the EVSE, more power means more heat generated on any weak points in the connection. Even though 40A is probably 99.9% safe, lower power is even safer. If I don't really have a reason to charge faster (which I don't), it makes sense to use lower power. Seen enough burn-scarred 14-50 EVSE outlets to know it's a potential weak point. 8-12 hours of continuous high power draw puts a lot of strain on cables/connections.

We don't have TOD pricing (same rate 24x7). We're also retired and don't drive many miles a day around home. We only charge about once a week. I have my schedule set to 90% from 11pm-1pm. I usually plug in when I get below 50%.

I know that's all being overly cautious, but if not really needed, lower is safer. And I can always dial it back up if needed.

 

[kennethjk]

I know this goes against the "more is always better" sentiment most have for charging speed, but I do just the opposite. I have a 40A Grizzl-E on a 50A circuit, but I dialed it down to 24A. And I may even dial it down to 16A.

Even though I have a good-quality 14-50 outlet and rarely unplug the EVSE, more power means more heat generated on any weak points in the connection. Even though 40A is probably 99.9% safe, lower power is even safer. If I don't really have a reason to charge faster (which I don't), it makes sense to use lower power. Seen enough burn-scarred 14-50 EVSE outlets to know it's a potential weak point. 8-12 hours of continuous high power draw puts a lot of strain on cables/connections.

We don't have TOD pricing (same rate 24x7). We're also retired and don't drive many miles a day around home. We only charge about once a week. I have my schedule set to 90% from 11pm-1pm. I usually plug in when I get below 50%.

I know that's all being overly cautious, but if not really needed, lower is safer. And I can always dial it back up if needed.

Curious what size wire you used for your 14-50 set up

 

[dbsb3233]

Curious what size wire you used for your 14-50 set up

The electrician used 6 guage, even though 8 was sufficient. It was about a 35 foot run from the breaker box. The distance matters. If it's a long run, bigger wire is a good idea.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

You should also understand that some chargers allow a modification of the charging speed, up or down, via the app. Some chargers require you to set DIP switches.

JuiceBox chargers do it via the app. I believe Ford is DIP switches.



No. With the same amperage, they will deliver the exact same amount of charge per hour.

Ford is both ... you set the DIP switches to the maximum safe rating for the circuit... but can still use the app to dial that back.

 

[kennethjk]

The electrician used 6 guage, even though 8 was sufficient. It was about a 35 foot run from the breaker box. The distance matters. If it's a long run, bigger wire is a good idea.

My electrician also used 6 gauge and the run was only about 6 feet.

 

[mkhuffman]

The breaker in the main panel has a “60” on it. Picture below. I’m also posting a picture of the full wiring, it goes only a few feet from the panel (located immediately on the other side of the wall) to the outlet. Does the box with the outlet in it look like it may have been set up that way? He definitely changed it to a 60 amp breaker in the main panel after the inspection, lol.

The good: he put the outlet in a weather resistant housing. The bad: there is no subpanel so the outlet is connected to the 60 amp breaker directly.

At least the outlet is outside so if it overheats and burns, it is not likely to catch your house on fire. Regardless, it should be a 50 amp breaker. And probably it should be a GFCI breaker, but personally I think it is OK as long as your EVSE is GFCI protected. Just my opinion. The NEC will require a GFCI breaker, which will probably cost you around $100 for the part (compared to $10 - $20 for a regular 50 amp breaker).

It is really easy to replace a breaker. Hopefully your electrician will do it for free. He should.

 

[Maquis]

My electrician also used 6 gauge and the run was only about 6 feet.

The ampacity depends on the wiring method. NM (Romex) would require #6 for 50A. THHN/THWN2 in a raceway would allow #8.

 

[bncwhite]

The real question here is: Do I really NEED the bump from 30mph to 36mph?

I liked this question. I’ve been on the fence about hardwired vs plug-in.

Since you asked, you helped me decide to go hardwired because my round-trip from home to work is 30 miles. If I go out for lunch while at work, i come closer to 33-36 miles. I travel to see family a couple times a month on weekends, almost 170 miles round-trip, and that’s not including incidental small trips to Walmart or restaurants while visiting. So that 6 mph charge difference can allow me to charge to 100% the Thursday night before my weekend trip and when I get home Friday afternoon, I can plug-in for an hour while I clean up, pack, and load the car. This 170ish mile round-trip could cause some range anxiety due to cold weather this time of year even on my ER battery. I’d rather not use public charging since it cost quite a bit more than at home. And there isn’t many charge stations along my weekend trip route. Charging at my destination is a no-go as well. Summertime temps would allow me to skip charging before leaving, if I chose to do so.

That 6mph difference comes down to 12 extra minutes of charging before hitting the road. Doesn’t sound like much, but if I time my trip correctly, it can mean a big difference in heavy traffic patterns.

Chargepoint claims a charging rate of up to 36mph for hardwired at 48A and 30mph at 40A hardwired or plug-in. That seems like aggressive marketing. If Ford thinks charging at 48A with the FCCS will only get me around 28 miles in one hour, that’s a big 8 mile gap between the two brands. Plus, the asterisk for that 28mph claim by Ford says the rate decreases as the battery reaches full capacity. So hardwiring for 48A will get me on the road the soonest and not necessarily 36 mph in one hour, regardless if I choose FCCS or Chargepoint.

 

[Maquis]

Everyone needs to stop obsessing about charge rates in “miles per hour”.
The charger is built into the car. The EVSE has an amp rating and tells the car what that is. Then the car tells the EVSE how much current it’s going to take. A 40A EVSE is going to charge the car at the same rate (practically speaking, there could be minor efficiency differences) regardless of the EVSE brand.
A 40 A EVSE can charge at 9.6KW (Ignoring efficiency losses). If manufacturer A uses 3 miles per kwhr, their claimed rate is 29 MPH. If manufacturer B assumes 3.5 miles per kwhr, they will claim 34 miles per hour. In reality, the charge rates are the same.

 

[ARK]

Chargepoint claims a charging rate of up to 36mph for hardwired at 48A and 30mph at 40A hardwired or plug-in. That seems like aggressive marketing. If Ford thinks charging at 48A with the FCCS will only get me around 28 miles in one hour, that’s a big 8 mile gap between the two brands. Plus, the asterisk for that 28mph claim by Ford says the rate decreases as the battery reaches full capacity. So hardwiring for 48A will get me on the road the soonest and not necessarily 36 mph in one hour, regardless if I choose FCCS or Chargepoint.

Ignore their mph charging claims, just compare the amps. I think a more concrete example will illustrate why.

Charging your car is putting power into it. Power is defined by amps * volts. Your volts are constant, if you use a normal house plug (L1 charging), you get around 110v. If you use a beefier dryer plug (L2 charging), you get around 220v.

Volts are sort of like water pressure (like how dense the electrons are). Amps are like how fast the water is flowing, i.e. like current. You can’t alter the pressure with a charger, but you can alter how fast the volts are flowing by reducing or increasing your amps.

Ignoring efficiency losses, if you have 220 volts flowing at 48 amps, than you multiply the two and get 10,560 watts in one hour, which converts to 10.56 kilowatt hours, i.e. 10.56 kWh.

Do you agree that how many miles you can drive on 10.56 kWh will be different in your Mach-E GT (EPA rated at 84 MPGe) versus in a Mach-E California Route 1 (EPA rated at 101 MPGe)? That’s why it’s not meaningful to talk about charging with miles per hour - it’s totally different how many ‘miles’ you will get each ‘hour’ depending on the specific car you’re talking about.

 

[cdale12]

The good: he put the outlet in a weather resistant housing. The bad: there is no subpanel so the outlet is connected to the 60 amp breaker directly.

At least the outlet is outside so if it overheats and burns, it is not likely to catch your house on fire. Regardless, it should be a 50 amp breaker. And probably it should be a GFCI breaker, but personally I think it is OK as long as your EVSE is GFCI protected. Just my opinion. The NEC will require a GFCI breaker, which will probably cost you around $100 for the part (compared to $10 - $20 for a regular 50 amp breaker).

It is really easy to replace a breaker. Hopefully your electrician will do it for free. He should.

Yes, NEC 625.60 (D) Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided for all receptacles.

 

[Bigfeets]

Ford is both ... you set the DIP switches to the maximum safe rating for the circuit... but can still use the app to dial that back.

I have questioned this on other threads and been told otherwise.
In this thread, RichMache and TheVirtualTim each seemed to say the Ford charger is software adjustable or the Ford mobile EVSE is DIP switch adjustable.

Is the Ford MME charger and/or stock mobile EVSE capable of being adjusted DOWN to 24 amps so I could use it on my existing dryer 240v/30amp circuit in my garage (with a 10-30 plug converter to 14-50?

I'm told the Ford MME mobile EVSE does 32amps, not adjustable, which would overload my 30 amp circuit breaker. Otherwise, I must buy a 3rd party EVSE that is limited to 24 amps or add a 40amp circuit breaker and wiring to a new 14-50 outlet in my garage. (I've also seen electrician opinions that the 10-30 dryer outlets are not grounded and have a risk that warrants the second, new outlet, option.)

Do you know if there is an online spec page or manual for the current Ford MME charging software and mobile EVSE?

 

[mkhuffman]

The EVSE included with the MME is not adjustable with software or hardware.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

I have questioned this on other threads and been told otherwise.
In this thread, RichMache and TheVirtualTim each seemed to say the Ford charger is software adjustable or the Ford mobile EVSE is DIP switch adjustable.

Is the Ford MME charger and/or stock mobile EVSE capable of being adjusted DOWN to 24 amps so I could use it on my existing dryer 240v/30amp circuit in my garage (with a 10-30 plug converter to 14-50?

I'm told the Ford MME mobile EVSE does 32amps, not adjustable, which would overload my 30 amp circuit breaker. Otherwise, I must buy a 3rd party EVSE that is limited to 24 amps or add a 40amp circuit breaker and wiring to a new 14-50 outlet in my garage. (I've also seen electrician opinions that the 10-30 dryer outlets are not grounded and have a risk that warrants the second, new outlet, option.)

Do you know if there is an online spec page or manual for the current Ford MME charging software and mobile EVSE?

The mobile charger is not adjustable.
The Ford Connected Charge Station IS adjustable.
with the FCCS the DIP switches set the maximum draw but the FordPass app can be used to dial back the power from the maximum limit.

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