DCFC preconditioning is it coming????

generaltso

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Agree. The target temp for DCFC should be 25°C and it should calculate how early to start so the battery is at that temp when you arrive. If the battery starts at 0°C, it will likely take 1+ hour of en route heating to get it up to 25°C.

The 18.6 mi threshold is only going to give you about 15 minutes of warming at freeway speed, which might be fine if it’s 65°F outside, but when it’s 20°F outside that’s not nearly enough and it will still coldgate. It seems simple enough to write a quick program that looks at battery temp difference from 25°C and outputs a range threshold based on the temp difference.
I mean, it could use the same logic that’s already built for departure time preconditioning. The car estimates how much time it needs to heat the battery to a certain temp by the time you leave. The temp for en route preconditioning is higher, but the logic should be the same.
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notaek

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I am just going to assume they snuck it in there to do some testing before it goes "live". Now they will have data to see how much it actually helps, even they need to increase range, etc.

That'd be the smart thing to do...or maybe actually have a beta test for EA users so we can also give feedback!

Mike Levine just retweeted this!
 
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AZBill

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Not sure how that means that a heat pump is needed.
Let’s assume you are using a 5kw resistive heater to warm the battery. That draws 5kw from the battery. With a heat pump, it can transfer 5kw from the motor waste heat, to the battery, while only using 1kw from the battery.

The AC is a heat pump running in reverse. When you drive in hot weather using the AC, do you lose as much range as when using E-heat in cold weather?
 

Arjan

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Does it differ really that much in charging time ? Yesterday i arrived with a hvb temperature of 6 degrees celcius (42,80 F), according to my ODB reader i could then charge at a maximum of 90 kWh.

After only adding 8% extra the charging maximum already was above 100 kWh and the temperature was already up 5 degrees celcius.. So when it is colder the car will start slower in charging but heats the batterij pretty quick and then will charge quicker.

Ford Mustang Mach-E DCFC preconditioning is it coming???? 11 graden temperatuur
Ford Mustang Mach-E DCFC preconditioning is it coming???? startwaarde accu
 

ckt

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Does it differ really that much in charging time ? Yesterday i arrived with a hvb temperature of 6 degrees celcius (42,80 F), according to my ODB reader i could then charge at a maximum of 90 kWh.

After only adding 8% extra the charging maximum already was above 100 kWh and the temperature was already up 5 degrees celcius.. So when it is colder the car will start slower in charging but heats the batterij pretty quick and then will charge quicker.

Ford Mustang Mach-E DCFC preconditioning is it coming???? startwaarde accu
Ford Mustang Mach-E DCFC preconditioning is it coming???? startwaarde accu
It does in really cold temps.
 


Hammered

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Does it differ really that much in charging time ? Yesterday i arrived with a hvb temperature of 6 degrees celcius (42,80 F), according to my ODB reader i could then charge at a maximum of 90 kWh.

After only adding 8% extra the charging maximum already was above 100 kWh and the temperature was already up 5 degrees celcius.. So when it is colder the car will start slower in charging but heats the batterij pretty quick and then will charge quicker.

Ford Mustang Mach-E DCFC preconditioning is it coming???? startwaarde accu
Ford Mustang Mach-E DCFC preconditioning is it coming???? startwaarde accu
Well yes. If your batt was at temp, you'd be up there at ~150kW charging. So in 8 minutes you've missed out on ~45% of your charge already. If you're doing a shorter stop, say 20 minutes, you'd have to spend at least 50% longer at the charger to get the same energy. As it gets colder it's much worse.

As for the heat pump extra efficiency question, it adds up. Performance would be closer to that of summer as you're having to use 1/4 to 1/2 of the energy in not only battery heating, but for cabin comfort, especially on those below freezing days where it can really matter.
 

generaltso

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Let’s assume you are using a 5kw resistive heater to warm the battery. That draws 5kw from the battery. With a heat pump, it can transfer 5kw from the motor waste heat, to the battery, while only using 1kw from the battery.

The AC is a heat pump running in reverse. When you drive in hot weather using the AC, do you lose as much range as when using E-heat in cold weather?
You’re explaining how a heat pump can be more efficient. I’m not disputing that. I’m disputing your statement that a heat pump is needed for preconditioning.
 

mkhuffman

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I re-ran this morning, car sat outside overnight, off plug, 31F outside temp.

1. Did a remote start and waited 10min, car was warm inside, all glass clear.
HVB temp 35.6-39.2F, charge pwr limit 86.1kW, coolant heater ~2.6kW, HVB coolant inlet temp 37.4F

2. Started car, 70F Auto-1, set NAV to DCFC location, car parked but running for 10min (no motor power/regen).
HVB temp 37.4-44.6F, charge pwr limit 90.7kW, coolant heater 4-5kW, HVB coolant inlet 44.6-73.6F (cycling)

3. Drove car with DCFC as NAV destination ~10miles/13minutes (mostly 70mph).
HVB temp 44.6-53.6F, charge pwr limit 99.5kW, coolant heater ~5kW, HVB coolant inlet 68F

4. Drove back same way (flat) - no change in HVB temps, charge power limit reduced 1kW.

Conclussions:
1. There is battery warming when NAV is going to a DCFC, but no obvious indicators
2. battery warming from hwy driving alone was negliglible under these conditions
3. battery warming was 9-15F, charge powr limit increased ~15%/13kW over the 23min
4. battery warmed faster the 2nd half of the test, could be a number of factors: battery thermal mass, cabin heater load. I suspect battery heating would be more effective in a fully warm car (like on a longer drive).

PS: I didn't actually do a DCFC, as battery was ~75% SOC. Would be interesting to run in colder conditions with a lower SOC, as my charge pwr limit started at 86kW (not terrible).
Sorry if I missed it in a prior post - have you received 3.6.2? I have not, and I am wondering if anyone has done this test in a car that has not received 3.6.2 yet to be sure this is new behavior. It could be this was happening before and nobody noticed? (It is not that I don't trust the official Ford announcement. OK, it is. 😂 )
 

Maquis

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Let’s assume you are using a 5kw resistive heater to warm the battery. That draws 5kw from the battery. With a heat pump, it can transfer 5kw from the motor waste heat, to the battery, while only using 1kw from the battery.

The AC is a heat pump running in reverse. When you drive in hot weather using the AC, do you lose as much range as when using E-heat in cold weather?
AC uses less because generally it is maintaining a lower temperature differential. Keeping the cabin at 70F requires less HVAC when it’s 90F outside (20F difference) as opposed to 20F outside (50F difference).
Those would be typical summer/winter temps where I live. Arizona will be different!!!
 

dbsb3233

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Well yes. If your batt was at temp, you'd be up there at ~150kW charging.
That's assuming that the cold isn't also slowing down the charger itself. I'm not sure if that's common or not. Hard to tell now much is the car and how much is the charger.
 

mkhuffman

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That's assuming that the cold isn't also slowing down the charger itself. I'm not sure if that's common or not. Hard to tell now much is the car and how much is the charger.
I have a theory: if the charging speed is below the Charge Power Limit shown in CarScanner, the charger is the reason and not the car. I have seen that happen at most of my DCFC stops.
 

Mach-Lee

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I have a theory: if the charging speed is below the Charge Power Limit shown in CarScanner, the charger is the reason and not the car. I have seen that happen at most of my DCFC stops.
The charge power max is the short term limit. Continuous charging will be limited to about half of the max. If you want to see what's limiting, you can look at what the charger is offering and what the car is requesting (one of the default car scanner dashboards shows those).

Also, my car is stuck on the old version without updates and I tested navigating to an EA station while less than 10 miles away. Nothing happened. I'm pretty sure the functionality is new.
 
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Johnny572

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It’s not that much though. If you’re also using the cabin heat the battery will only take an additional 2.5 kW or so. If it ran for a hour that’s less than 8 miles of range lost. It’s SLOW.

I would be totally fine using up to 5 kWh to heat the pack. I think that’s an acceptable energy budget unless you’re running really low. Heater would have to run full blast exclusively heating the battery for an hour to use that all up.
Hyundai just added Preconditioning and its dealer installed no OTA and it’s 30miles only and above 20% or more of battery life. No Apple car play.
#Ford is preconditioning to a DCFC coming soon???? Because we really need this here in the Midwest. Ionic 5 is rolling this out.
#Ford is preconditioning to a DCFC coming soon???? Because we really need this here in the Midwest. Ionic 5 is rolling this out.
looks like Hyundai made a lot of mistakes with it’s new preconditioning update…..hope Ford is watching.
 

Arjan

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I have a theory: if the charging speed is below the Charge Power Limit shown in CarScanner, the charger is the reason and not the car. I have seen that happen at most of my DCFC stops.
Charging started at 88 kWh and carscanner told the max is 90. So it was on par.
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