Disable Backup Beeping?

Mirak

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Is there any firm evidence, and I’m not talking about anecdotes or non-scientific surveys conducted by interest groups, to support that EVs really pose a menace to the visually impaired? This is not a rhetorical question. I’m genuinely curious. In a short amount of research I haven’t found anything that looks really solid.

And where is the push to require noise emitters on bicycles, which are far quieter than even the stealthiest EV and just as potentially dangerous at high speed

Respectfully, and I do mean that sincerely, advocacy groups can’t really exist without always having something to be concerned or advocating about. It is their raison d’etre.

The truth is, a 5,000lb vehicle driving down the street or even moving through a parking lot makes noise. Oh, but what if it drowned out by other ambient noise? Good question! Is the solution then be arming an increasing number of vehicles with speakers to contribute more to that noise?





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BMT1071

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I don’t get it. Why does this bother people SO much?
At this point I'm worth you. That said, I've only had a 5 mile test drive and I didn't notice either sound. Maybe I'll feel differently when I'm backing my MME out of the garage.
It's sorta like the 'bulky' key fob complaints. I guess it could be a little smaller, but I put it in my pocket and never think about it again. 🤷🏻
 

Chudsaviet

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And for the visually impaired (among others) the sound can be a life saver. Get over it.
Well, no, I will not get over it. So easy to tell this if the beeping do not affect you. You are pretty cruel.
The beeping affects me every day, multiple times a day. And having it for some *unproven* number of cases without any proof it makes a difference does mot justify me having to feel the pain every day.
I’m pretty sure the whole backup beeping thing on all the vehicles makes more harm than good.
 

ChasingCoral

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I have always been glad that Ford does many things BETTER than Tesla. After reading this thread, I'm not so sure everyone agrees.

I guess a lot of people have no one in their lives that they care about that is sight impaired.

Yeah, I would be the guy who would want the backup beep on ICE vehicles too.
Back in the 90s we found a backup light bulb with a sound emitter (or maybe inline with the base of the bulb). In minutes we added a backup beeper to our Taurus wagon.

Amazing how your priorities change when you have little kids in the house (assuming you don't want to run over them).
 

ChasingCoral

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Is there any firm evidence, and I’m not talking about anecdotes or non-scientific surveys conducted by interest groups, to support that EVs really pose a menace to the visually impaired? This is not a rhetorical question. I’m genuinely curious. In a short amount of research I haven’t found anything that looks really solid.

And where is the push to require noise emitters on bicycles, which are far quieter than even the stealthiest EV and just as potentially dangerous at high speed

Respectfully, and I do mean that sincerely, advocacy groups can’t really exist without always having something to be concerned or advocating about. It is their raison d’etre.

The truth is, a 5,000lb vehicle driving down the street or even moving through a parking lot makes noise. Oh, but what if it drowned out by other ambient noise? Good question! Is the solution then be arming an increasing number of vehicles with speakers to contribute more to that noise?
There is firm evidence that backup beepers reduce injury and death, thus the requirement to place them on commercial vehicles. Even ICE vehicles can be quiet enough to not be sufficient warning.

As for bikes, yes many states require a bell of similar sound producing device to signal pedestrians. Doesn't work when they're jamming loud on whatever's coming out their earbuds though.
 

jhalkias

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There is firm evidence that backup beepers reduce injury and death, thus the requirement to place them on commercial vehicles. Even ICE vehicles can be quiet enough to not be sufficient warning.

As for bikes, yes many states require a bell of similar sound producing device to signal pedestrians. Doesn't work when they're jamming loud on whatever's coming out their earbuds though.
Unfortunately my bike bell sounds a lot like the chime for a text if people leave their phone at factory settings. Many a time I ring my bell at pedestrians on the trail only to have them start looking at their phones.
 

ChasingCoral

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Unfortunately my bike bell sounds a lot like the chime for a text if people leave their phone at factory settings. Many a time I ring my bell at pedestrians on the trail only to have them start looking at their phones.
Sounds like you need a bike duckie
 
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  • Thread starter
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Back in the 90s we found a backup light bulb with a sound emitter (or maybe inline with the base of the bulb). In minutes we added a backup beeper to our Taurus wagon.

Amazing how your priorities change when you have little kids in the house (assuming you don't want to run over them).
I’d be with you if I didn’t have a 360° camera AND collision avoidance that will apply the brakes for me. My dog has already proven that I couldn’t hit him if I tried.
 

mpshizzle

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TBH I'm of the mindset that the sound is good for safety, but the beeping element is annoying and unnecessary. I wish it was just the same sounds for drive and reverse.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to be that for a visually impaired person, it really doesn't matter if the car is going forward or backwards. All that matters is they can hear a car approaching.
 

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We've had this discussion before. It's not legally required BUT, if you do disable it and get into an accident with a pedestrian, you could still be liable.
Of course hitting a pedestrian with a functional noise-maker doesn't remove your liability for running into a pedestrian!

I can see the courtroom scene now:

"Your Honor, with all due respect, I didn't need to look where I was going because I had a functional back-up noise-maker warning pedestrians that I was backing up and to get out of my way." :oops:
 

LagerHead

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Actually, even a sighted pedestrian can be caught by surprise by an electric vehicle. I’ve noticed, in parking lots, Toyota Priusii “sneak up” on me in “creep mode” on more than one occasion. Here’s an example - one of Elon’s “flawless Fully Self Driving” things is chugging down the driveway (or whatever) in “summon mode” and little Sarah is drawing her hopscotch pattern on the driveway. A Pedestrian Alert (even if it’s just Elon’s burps and vomit noises) at least gives Sarah a chance to get out of the vehicle’s way.
I've tried running over things with my Model 3 in Summon Mode. It doesn't work, it always stops for objects large enough to cause a problem (and some that probably wouldn't matter). It errs on the side of caution.

Once I wanted to demonstrate Summon to my dog. My wife, I, and the dog were going out for a hike. With the three of us standing about 5 feet behind the car, I summoned it forward. The car had only moved about 3 feet forward when my dog looked at me and my wife and started barking and jumping up and down. Our dog kept glancing between the departing car and us like he was saying "the car is leaving without us, aren't you going to do something?". My wife and I were laughing pretty hard when the dog took off and tried to circle around the front of the car with only inches to spare but the car used it's brakes and stopped instantly before the dog had fully rounded the front bumper. This is a small dog only standing about 12 inches at the shoulders. We were still laughing and our dog was still circling the now stopped car and barking excitedly while jumping up and down trying to see inside the windows.

I think a backup beeper is needed more with a human driver than AI with cameras and ultrasonic sensors covering the bumpers. Of course if the driver is competent, beepers are not needed with a human either.
 

zhackwyatt

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Of course hitting a pedestrian with a functional noise-maker doesn't remove your liability for running into a pedestrian!

I can see the courtroom scene now:

"Your Honor, with all due respect, I didn't need to look where I was going because I had a functional back-up noise-maker warning pedestrians that I was backing up and to get out of my way." :oops:
Well of course. But depending on the circumstances, it may persuade something from negligence to gross negligence. I'm not a lawyer (I have seen a few episodes of Law & Order though). I'm just saying, it would be a point in the other person's favor.
 

LagerHead

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Well of course. But depending on the circumstances, it may persuade something from negligence to gross negligence. I'm not a lawyer (I have seen a few episodes of Law & Order though). I'm just saying, it would be a point in the other person's favor.
Perhaps, but if you are not negligent to begin with, that distinction will never have to be made. I always ensure the area is clear before I back up.
 

Fenix

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I wish there was a software where you can turn off the backup beep instead of going into the frunk and basically muffling the speaker. I don't mind keeping the pedestrian hum the car makes at low speeds.
 

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