Does Preconditioning Really Matter?

jeffMachE

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To throw a bit more info (thanks OP for the post!) into this mix: On my i3, the energy required to heat up a 33 kWh battery pack to optimal temperature dwarfed the energy it took to heat up the cabin. Obviously the external temp impacts the energy consumption, but the ratio between the 2 seemed pretty consistent to me - roughly 3x the energy to heat up the pack vs. heat up the cabin. I also could NOT get any battery pack heating unless the departure time was set at least 3 hours into the future.

I assume that the Mach-e is similar - heating up the thermal mass of the battery pack to optimal temperature will take far more energy than heating up the cabin (mostly air). That being said, however, I have not seen the same energy consumption graph on my Mach-e that I would see on my i3. I've only observed the Mach-e drawing wall power in the 15 minutes before departure. With the i3, it would use the battery charge to heat the battery pack and then begin replenishing the battery charge over an hour before departure, with a spike coming in the last 15 minutes before departure. Maybe, as someone previous has indicated, the Mach-e only conditions the pack if the external temp is below some set point.
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tuminatr

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I wonder how long the precondition is good for? My mornings are a bit sporadic when I sometimes leave for work at 7am, 8am, 9am, etc. If I set the departure time to just 7am every day, will it still be fine or would most of the battery cooled/heated up too much from sitting for a few hours if I leave at 9am or 10am? I guess it would probably still be better than it not preconditioning at all and sitting for over 12 hours without anything.
To my understanding 15 minutes after the scheduled departure time, but if someone knows different please correct.

I have been preconditioning here in MN because it's been really cold. Last week overnight -19 or so. Without preconditioning it takes a long time for the car to heat up. I acknowledge that it is just shifting energy usage to my home current rather than using the battery of the car.

Just a guess on my part is heating the car in the cold takes about 5kwh of power. It seems to me that if I don't precondition my range drops between 15-25 miles temperature dependant.

One other thing to consider the charger is not 100% efficient. You probably use 6kwh to charge the battery 5kwh

I think it comes down to preference and what your charging setup is. To your point, it may not make sense to precon at a peak electric rate.

One other thought is the battery only gets preconditioned if it needs it, if it's really cold the car may be keeping the battery warm on its own.


Thanks for posting
 
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Colorider

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I assume that the Mach-e is similar - heating up the thermal mass of the battery pack to optimal temperature will take far more energy than heating up the cabin (mostly air). That being said, however, I have not seen the same energy consumption graph on my Mach-e that I would see on my i3. I've only observed the Mach-e drawing wall power in the 15 minutes before departure. With the i3, it would use the battery charge to heat the battery pack and then begin replenishing the battery charge over an hour before departure, with a spike coming in the last 15 minutes before departure. Maybe, as someone previous has indicated, the Mach-e only conditions the pack if the external temp is below some set point.
I suspect that is the case. I unplugged my CP and plugged it in again about 6:00am to initiate a new charge session and it was not drawing power at the time. I don’t see how it could heat such a large pack in 15 minutes, and it probably didn’t feel the need in my 50-something degree garage. Too bad my charge cable isn’t long enough to reach outside so I could do the same test with a 20 degree car.

If anyone else is willing to do that, I would gladly share my spreadsheet so they can collect data! ?
 

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I suspect that is the case. I unplugged my CP and plugged it in again about 6:00am to initiate a new charge session and it was not drawing power at the time. I don’t see how it could heat such a large pack in 15 minutes, and it probably didn’t feel the need in my 50-something degree garage. Too bad my charge cable isn’t long enough to reach outside so I could do the same test with a 20 degree car.

If anyone else is willing to do that, I would gladly share my spreadsheet so they can collect data! ?
Yeah at 50 degrees your probably not heating anything up really. I leave my car outside and I see a very big difference in energy use (and conditioning time) at 30F vs 45F for precondition.
planning your charging window to finish close to your departure time is probably the most efficient way to warm up the batteries.
 

Illinibird

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I suspect that is the case. I unplugged my CP and plugged it in again about 6:00am to initiate a new charge session and it was not drawing power at the time. I don’t see how it could heat such a large pack in 15 minutes, and it probably didn’t feel the need in my 50-something degree garage. Too bad my charge cable isn’t long enough to reach outside so I could do the same test with a 20 degree car.

If anyone else is willing to do that, I would gladly share my spreadsheet so they can collect data! ?
I'm slow on the uptake here so please bear with me. I have a similar situation in that my garage is 50 degrees and outside its 5 degrees this morning. I have the car set to "precondition" starting at 7:45 am for a 8:10 departure. Am I only preconditioning the cabin so it is warm or is the battery being heated as well? Reading your post, it seems the battery would NOT precondition because the garage is not cold enough (<32 degrees). Is that assumption correct? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I want to be sure I am understanding this correctly.
 


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I'm slow on the uptake here so please bear with me. I have a similar situation in that my garage is 50 degrees and outside its 5 degrees this morning. I have the car set to "precondition" starting at 7:45 am for a 8:10 departure. Am I only preconditioning the cabin so it is warm or is the battery being heated as well? Reading your post, it seems the battery would NOT precondition because the garage is not cold enough (<32 degrees). Is that assumption correct? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I want to be sure I am understanding this correctly.
The battery will precondition if the car determines that it's cold enough to require it. Has nothing to do with the temperature outside, has to do with the temperature of the battery pack itself.

I'm confused with your "starting at 7:45 for a 8:10 departure". You set the departure time, i.e. the time that you want to leave. The car figures out when it wants to start preconditioning.
 

Illinibird

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The battery will precondition if the car determines that it's cold enough to require it. Has nothing to do with the temperature outside, has to do with the temperature of the battery pack itself.

I'm confused with your "starting at 7:45 for a 8:10 departure". You set the departure time, i.e. the time that you want to leave. The car figures out when it wants to start preconditioning.
I said I was slow ? I thought when you set the time it was for the car to "start" the process not the time I would leave; now I know better. Also, being 50 degrees in the garage the battery would not need to precondition then as per your answer. Thank you. I'm going out to the garage in a few minutes to leave.
 

RickMachE

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I said I was slow ? I thought when you set the time it was for the car to "start" the process not the time I would leave; now I know better. Also, being 50 degrees in the garage the battery would not need to precondition then as per your answer. Thank you. I'm going out to the garage in a few minutes to leave.
I guess the term "departure time" is not clear. ?

No, I did not say that the battery didn't need to precondition at 50 degrees.

I said "The battery will precondition if the car determines that it's cold enough to require it. Has nothing to do with the temperature outside, has to do with the temperature of the battery pack itself."

It doesn't matter if your garage is 40, 30, 10, ... It matters what temperature the battery pack itself is at, which it communicates, which the car then decides if it wants to warm it up during your preconditioning.

In addition, if the battery pack gets too cold, and the car is plugged in, the car can decide to warm the battery up at any time it can get power from the wall. The only thing that would stop that from happening would be the car being unplugged, or the wall charger not providing power (mine is "off" from 11AM - 7PM, my peak rate times.
 

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I guess the term "departure time" is not clear. ?

No, I did not say that the battery didn't need to precondition at 50 degrees.

I said "The battery will precondition if the car determines that it's cold enough to require it. Has nothing to do with the temperature outside, has to do with the temperature of the battery pack itself."

It doesn't matter if your garage is 40, 30, 10, ... It matters what temperature the battery pack itself is at, which it communicates, which the car then decides if it wants to warm it up during your preconditioning.

In addition, if the battery pack gets too cold, and the car is plugged in, the car can decide to warm the battery up at any time it can get power from the wall. The only thing that would stop that from happening would be the car being unplugged, or the wall charger not providing power (mine is "off" from 11AM - 7PM, my peak rate times.
I think most people would (reasonably) presume that the battery temp in the morning would be pretty much equal to the garage temp after sitting there overnight (10+ hours).

That would not be the case of it was being charged that night, of course.
 

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I think most people would (reasonably) presume that the battery temp in the morning would be pretty much equal to the garage temp after sitting there overnight (10+ hours).

That would not be the case of it was being charged that night, of course.
Or had been driven recently. The point is that the car owner has no idea what the preconditioning is doing, and shouldn't base the need for it, or not for it, on their idea of how cold it might be.
 

Illinibird

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I guess the term "departure time" is not clear. ?

No, I did not say that the battery didn't need to precondition at 50 degrees.

I said "The battery will precondition if the car determines that it's cold enough to require it. Has nothing to do with the temperature outside, has to do with the temperature of the battery pack itself."

It doesn't matter if your garage is 40, 30, 10, ... It matters what temperature the battery pack itself is at, which it communicates, which the car then decides if it wants to warm it up during your preconditioning.

In addition, if the battery pack gets too cold, and the car is plugged in, the car can decide to warm the battery up at any time it can get power from the wall. The only thing that would stop that from happening would be the car being unplugged, or the wall charger not providing power (mine is "off" from 11AM - 7PM, my peak rate times.
Got it!
 
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Colorider

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The battery will precondition if the car determines that it's cold enough to require it. Has nothing to do with the temperature outside, has to do with the temperature of the battery pack itself.
This morning it was zero degrees at my house and the garage was 47. When I came out at 5:30, my car was clearly pulling juice and I swear it sounded like a pump was moving liquid. I was hoping to see this captured in my ChargePoint log, but only saw a blip at 1:47am and zero PC blip this morning.
 

RickMachE

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This morning it was zero degrees at my house and the garage was 47. When I came out at 5:30, my car was clearly pulling juice and I swear it sounded like a pump was moving liquid. I was hoping to see this captured in my ChargePoint log, but only saw a blip at 1:47am and zero PC blip this morning.
Can't speak to ChargePoint, but my JuiceBox graph will show the power pulled over the entire time it's plugged in. I've posted it before.
 
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Colorider

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Can't speak to ChargePoint, but my JuiceBox graph will show the power pulled over the entire time it's plugged in. I've posted it before.
Same. I don’t understand why it went dark at 2:30 this morning…

Ford Mustang Mach-E Does Preconditioning Really Matter? DEC83618-4B20-4D6E-828A-4C2A3ACE7604
 

mkhuffman

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I was surprised by that and also surprised that my driving efficiency was higher without. It was in the garage both days and the garage stays about 50 degrees.
I suspect this may be because the Trip efficiency rating is not accurate much of the time. I have verified using my ODBII reader and the FordPass EV Driving History log that the car Trip efficiency is often way off from actual. It is frustrating. The car does know exactly how much battery was used and exactly how far we drove, but for some reason the Trip reports a different efficiency number than what you can calculate using OBDII data.

The EV Driving History does seem to correlate well with OBDII reported actual battery used, but even that log has some weird data in it. Like trips that I didn't take.

Ford software really needs improvement, IMO.
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