Down for the count :(

[louibluey]

See my post above. I believe Energy Transfer System is different than the LVB charging circuit.
The ETS is for when the car is left parked unattended for a period of time while the LVB Charging System is for normal day to day use.

Interesting, I do not completely understand it yet, but this diagram seems consistent with what you are saying. There do appear to be two separate paths to power the DC/DC converter (the bottom two, the top is DC fast charge).

An auxiliary high voltage cable connects the high voltage battery to each of the high voltage components: cabin coolant heater, ACCM, DCDC and Battery Charger Control Module (BCCM) also known as the SOBDM. Two circuits supply high voltage to the DCDC and two separate circuits supply high voltage to the cabin coolant heater.

It might be more like, one is run from the charger (L1, L2), the charge port, the other while driving, possibly including, not driving, auxiliary and "power on", when not plugged in.

It looks like the battery charger is only active/alive when plugged in (the J1772 plug). That does not mean LVB charges while plugged in, rather, LVB can charge according to the rules, from the HV output of the charger when plugged in L1/L2 (DCFC is different).

@SnBGC, reminds of when were looking at frunk release diagrams together in the "old days".

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[Astraea]

Yes, I also came to the same conclusion after trying to make sense of the info as written. Just a case of the target audience not being the casual reader.

I'm glad that there are at least resources available for us to better understand these and how they work to better diagnose problems. Although it still leaves the software side of things to question now that we have the hardware a little better understood. Unfortunately software is probably where my input and basic understanding will end. ?

 

[louibluey]

I'm glad that there are at least resources available for us to better understand these and how they work to better diagnose problems. Although it still leaves the software side of things to question now that we have the hardware a little better understood. Unfortunately software is probably where my input and basic understanding will end. ?

Other than the contactor stuck open message identified by @Shayne, most likely software is the problem. There are probably one or more flaws in the charging strategy that Ford can fix by changes to firmware/software once the problems are better understood.

 

[sockmeister]

It was Both that one and the "oil change" icon Kinda like this but more neon red ->

Nothing to worry about with the battery icon.

I'm not sure what the other one was. Was it this?
If so, it means that your 12V battery is likely low. Can resolve itself automatically. Or was it something else you saw?

 

[Astraea]

Other than the contactor stuck open message identified by @Shayne, most likely software is the problem. There are probably one or more flaws in the charging strategy that Ford can fix by changes to firmware/software once the problems are better understood.

I really hope they figure it out quickly. Not that I have anything against the little Kia K5 I'm driving for my rental(paid by Ford, thank goodness) but I miss my baby! ?

 

[SnBGC]

So as I understand it, there IS a system that will charge the LVB while the vehicle is in motion and a separate one that monitors and chargers the LVB when necessary while the vehicle is off. Does that sound correct?

It sounds that way. A main system that charges the LVB when the vehicle is in Ready mode or when charging the HVB and then another system that transfers energy from the HVB to the LVB. I suspect some sort of latching relay(s) with a control signal from the DC/DC converter. The WSM says the DCCM is able to function even with the main HVB contactors closed. (Or something to that effect....)

 

[SnBGC]

Interesting, I do not completely understand it yet, but this diagram seems consistent with what you are saying. There do appear to be two separate paths to power the DC/DC converter (the bottom two, the top is DC fast charge).

An auxiliary high voltage cable connects the high voltage battery to each of the high voltage components: cabin coolant heater, ACCM, DCDC and Battery Charger Control Module (BCCM) also known as the SOBDM. Two circuits supply high voltage to the DCDC and two separate circuits supply high voltage to the cabin coolant heater.

It might be more like, one is run from the charger (L1, L2), the charge port, the other while driving, possibly including, not driving, auxiliary and "power on", when not plugged in.

It looks like the battery charger is only active/alive when plugged in (the J1772 plug). That does not mean LVB charges while plugged in, rather, LVB can charge according to the rules, from the HV output of the charger when plugged in L1/L2 (DCFC is different).

@SnBGC, reminds of when were looking at frunk release diagrams together in the "old days".

Speaking of the trunk release. It appears that emergency button inside the tub does not function (not yet for me anyway...)

I guess that is why they had to install the divider assembly. For safety reasons.

 

[Astraea]

Speaking of the trunk release. It appears that emergency button inside the tub does not function (not yet for me anyway...)

I guess that is why they had to install the divider assembly. For safety reasons.

Interesting, I may have to test that when I get mine back, my youngest sibling is still quite small so she should be able to fit, just need to convince her. ??

 

[SnBGC]

I'm glad that there are at least resources available for us to better understand these and how they work to better diagnose problems. Although it still leaves the software side of things to question now that we have the hardware a little better understood. Unfortunately software is probably where my input and basic understanding will end. ?

Yeah. That document was a neat find. I have access to the Fleet site and I hadn't seen that before. I am sure it is in there somewhere.

That term "energy transfer" has me thinking.....
When I was at the EV roadshow, I remember the HVB pack in the Lightning and the E-Transit (which uses the Mach-E SR pack) had one module that was different than the rest. I wonder if Ford found a clever way to segregate one module pack electrically while the vehicle is turned off and not charging. That one module might be able to "transfer energy" to the LVB without the need to step down the DC voltage and thus avoid the thermal heat gain inside the DCCM?

I will study the wiring diagrams for the HVB and see if I can find any clues....

 

[Thesmoothdome]

These are failing at a rate many times what we should think of as normal. Disappointing.

With 2 of these in our house I'm beginning to think about picking a spare battery up, or at least making sure where I can find one in a hurry.

The next recall? Cheaper to replace them than to have them towed in, eh?

I have NEVER had a battery lose it's charge in it's first 5 years let alone it's first, driving since 1974.

Please define the rate at which they're failing. Do we have numbers or just a few anecdotal experiences posted on forums which tend to slant towards issues being experienced?

 

[RickMachE]

Please define the rate at which they're failing. Do we have numbers or just a few anecdotal experiences posted on forums which tend to slant towards issues being experienced?

Forums never have numbers. It is 100% anecdotal.

The F-150 forum had many posts about batteries failing. Never a recall, never a TSB. Dozens of people had failed batteries though.

 

[MachTri]

Nothing to worry about with the battery icon.

I'm not sure what the other one was. Was it this?
If so, it means that your 12V battery is likely low. Can resolve itself automatically. Or was it something else you saw?

Yes it was the second one! And it did say Stop Safely. Of course I was already stopped. Thanks for the help. Maybe it's not the same issue as the OP?

 

[sockmeister]

Yes it was the second one! And it did say Stop Safely. Of course I was already stopped. Thanks for the help. Maybe it's not the same issue as the OP?

Probably not as severe, but I do think it's related to your 12V getting low, especially since you saw it resolve by itself later. If you ever see it again, just schedule a dealer appointment and suggest the 12V, although there's no guarantee that's what it was.
Might behoove you to put the battery on a maintainer for a couple of days while it's parked at home.

 

[louibluey]

Please define the rate at which they're failing. Do we have numbers or just a few anecdotal experiences posted on forums which tend to slant towards issues being experienced?

It's kind of a jumble at this point. Maybe there are some general categories.

Arrives at dealer (GTs recently) 12V depleted or dead (some LVB cannot be recovered according the dealer)

LVB depleted when owner arrives at MME ready to go somewhere, could be morning at home, lunch, or going home from work. Some can use jump pack, others end up with a tow.

All kinds of 12V LVB warnings, both on MME and Fordpass, including Sync warning "turn off or turn on", Fordpass 12V service needed, or even replace 12V LVB soon. Many of these warnings are believed to be bogus, because MME charges these fine, and battery testing shows good batteries. Some, of course maybe an indication of an actual LVB problem. Seems to be a software disconnect between the charging rules/scheduling and error thresholds and timing.

A lot of us are looking at the LVB and it's care and feeding. It's anecdotal by nature, unique to our MME, test methods, situation, plugged in, unplugged, temperature, etc. The crowd source aspect, including new Ford documents, may lead to some collective information, or not.

Ford tends to solve these issues over weeks/months as they identify the problem, come up with a fix, and then release a SSM or TSB, which is usually just a software update.

Some may have hardware problems, probably the LVB itself is less likely in many cases, than something wrong with the LVB charging. For example, the later series of Chevy Volt had a systematic problem later identified as one specific loose ground connection.

 

[louibluey]

Well, here is another quick anecdotal report from overnight (mild for here, 30sF). First set (voltage over soc) is overnight L2 plugged in. Second set continues where at the end of the first graphs, unplugged MME, turned ON (not accessory). Here, MME charged LVB the entire time on.

Note how BMS (where this data comes from) is active, then goes into the 15 minute sleep/report one point every 15 minutes, then when MME is ON, back to 25 reports/second.

The spike (DC/DC converter on, but only for a moment) after 7 hours is probably from my iPhone and FordPass this morning. Unplugged and turned MME ON about 8 hours into the record (7:45 am). Zero hours on the plots is Thu Jan 13 11:44:11 PM 2022.

continuation from above, MME ON, unplugged, then turned OFF, SD card removed to read it. Making progress on WIFI reporting to an Amazon AWS S3 server, but not there yet

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