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EA kWh Pricing Announced

dbsb3233

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What you're missing is that there is no penalty other than TIME IDLE to go up to 100% instead of 80%.

The assertion is that someone with a MME at 10% SOC stops at the charger across the street from a nice restaurant in the middle of a long trip. Said person want s a nice sitdown meal that could take an hour. SO, said person sets the "finish" charge % to 100% and goes into the restaurant. Finally, an hour later they come out of the restaurant and their MME is just hitting 100%, so no idle fees and now the car has a more of a charge to make the next stop go faster. In the meantime, that charger was in use for an hour or more instead of the customary 30-45 minutes
Exactly. And in such a scenario, the odds of people dipping into that 10 minute grace period go up a lot too. When it was increasingly expensive to add those last 20 kWh, people were much more likely to stop short. But now there's greater chance of them going all the way to 100% + into the 10 minute grace period beyond (if they're able to fill that time with something useful like a sit-down meal, the bar, shopping, etc).

It'll be even more interesting to see the charge curve now, and how long it takes to go from 80% to 100% where the charger shuts off and the 10-min grace period starts. Hopefully that doesn't drag out too long because that could really tie up chargers longer.

Not saying this will happen on half of all refuelings, of course, but at the margin, we could see some longer waits to get on one.
 

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Are people forgetting that when you on trips you will never need to top fully up except before you leave house. Rest of the time you are just topping of the juice to get to either destination to plug in or to next charger to plug in. So their should be no idling or fees. The way it is set up I think is you go in to charge at say 3% and you will charge to like 80% if that to get to next charger or destination so charge rate does not go down. So you are getting most juice when charging . Then you leave and by the time you at next stop you are at like 10% or so on.

of course I’m thinking on how Tesla does it but you do not need to fill car up fully on juice to get going agai that’s how you keep moving

I don't intend to be pulling into chargers at 3%.
 

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Would charging stations even know your vehicle's SoC? I kind of doubt it. I think they will have an idle charge like Tesla. Maybe they will have a tiered system where after 50 kWh it will increase the price per kWh, but I doubt that as well.
You set the percent to charge up to in the car. As long as the car is still taking a small charge (10 kw), no idle fees - because it is not idle.
 

dbsb3233

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Would charging stations even know your vehicle's SoC? I kind of doubt it. I think they will have an idle charge like Tesla. Maybe they will have a tiered system where after 50 kWh it will increase the price per kWh, but I doubt that as well.
It may not know your actual SOC below 100% (not sure), but it knows when the car says it's at 100% and tells the charger to stop charging. And EA has an idle charge that kicks in 10 minutes after that point:

Idle Fee: Once charging stops, you pay 0.40 /min after a 10 minute grace period.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/pricing/
 

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Exactly. And in such a scenario, the odds of people dipping into that 10 minute grace period go up a lot too. When it was increasingly expensive to add those last 20 kWh, people were much more likely to stop short. But now there's greater chance of them going all the way to 100% + into the 10 minute grace period beyond (if they're able to fill that time with something useful like a sit-down meal, the bar, shopping, etc).

It'll be even more interesting to see the charge curve now, and how long it takes to go from 80% to 100% where the charger shuts off and the 10-min grace period starts. Hopefully that doesn't drag out too long because that could really tie up chargers longer.

Not saying this will happen on half of all refuelings, of course, but at the margin, we could see some longer waits to get on one.

This could be solved by retaining a small time based component of the total bill.

So:

1st 20 minutes are free (only kWh charge).

After that kwh charge + $0.50 / minute.

High charge during idle with no grace.

If you look at a typical case for a car that charges like the ME your time-based charges are minimal. They might be fairly high if you're charging a Bolt.

I'm completely in favor of reasonably high prices at EA locations. Mainly because I want to stimulate other companies to put chargers out on the highways. I don't think prices slightly higher than Tesla's will dissuade anybody from buying a $40,000 electric vehicle.
 

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This could be solved by retaining a small time based component of the total bill.

So:

1st 20 minutes are free (only kWh charge).

After that kwh charge + $0.50 / minute.

High charge during idle with no grace.

If you look at a typical case for a car that charges like the ME your time-based charges are minimal. They might be fairly high if you're charging a Bolt.

I'm completely in favor of reasonably high prices at EA locations. Mainly because I want to stimulate other companies to put chargers out on the highways. I don't think prices slightly higher than Tesla's will dissuade anybody from buying a $40,000 electric vehicle.
I'm glad you aren't running EA.

Given that there is now an emphasis on >=150kw charging withe newer cars, I don't think there's going to be a huge issue with hogging chargers.
 

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I'm glad you aren't running EA.

Given that there is now an emphasis on >=150kw charging withe newer cars, I don't think there's going to be a huge issue with hogging chargers.
I disagree. I haven't looked at the Porsche charging curve, but if you look at the Tesla charging curves they start out really fast for about 20 minutes and then slow down dramatically.

If people are across the street eating a hamburger do you think they're going to worry about taking their car off the charger just because it's charging slow if there aren't any fees?
 

dbsb3233

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All this just reiterates that the phone apps better have good charging status monitoring and alarms. It's needs to (strongly) remind people to get back to their car within X minutes as their car starts getting near full, to free up that charger for the next guy.
 

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It may not know your actual SOC below 100% (not sure), but it knows when the car says it's at 100% and tells the charger to stop charging. And EA has an idle charge that kicks in 10 minutes after that point:

Idle Fee: Once charging stops, you pay 0.40 /min after a 10 minute grace period.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/pricing/
The charger does a handshake with your vehicle so it can know what the state of charge is. Here is a screenshot of an EA charging session, the green bar is the SOC.


46EEE727-7349-41B2-A147-09675671ECCB.png

see time stamp 11:34

 

JayTee

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All this just reiterates that the phone apps better have good charging status monitoring and alarms. It's needs to (strongly) remind people to get back to their car within X minutes as their car starts getting near full, to free up that charger for the next guy.
If that works well then nobody will incur time fees.
 

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You set the percent to charge up to in the car. As long as the car is still taking a small charge (10 kw), no idle fees - because it is not idle.
I get that, I thought you were saying there should be an additional fee from 80-100%
 

timbop

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I get that, I thought you were saying there should be an additional fee from 80-100%
Oh, no not at all. I don't want that, and I don't think it is necessary. Others have suggested it, but I disagree.
 

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I get that, I thought you were saying there should be an additional fee from 80-100%
I do.
Oh, no not at all. I don't want that, and I don't think it is necessary. Others have suggested it, but I disagree.
You may change your mind when you've been sitting in line behind a car for 40 minutes.
 

timbop

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You may change your mind when you've been sitting in line behind a car for 40 minutes.
Possibly, but as I've said I don't think it will be a general problem other than right at mealtimes, and then only if there is a sit down restaurant right where the charger is. People aren't going to sit for any longer than they have to at Wendy's or McDonalds, and there's only so much wandering around Walmart that you can do.

If it becomes a problem, then address the problem. Don't create an unnecessary solution in search of a problem, particularly since they've already announced the policy.
 

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Possibly, but as I've said I don't think it will be a general problem other than right at mealtimes, and then only if there is a sit down restaurant right where the charger is. People aren't going to sit for any longer than they have to at Wendy's or McDonalds, and there's only so much wandering around Walmart that you can do.

If it becomes a problem, then address the problem. Don't create an unnecessary solution in search of a problem, particularly since they've already announced the policy.
Then why do EA and Tesla (I think) have idle fees?
 



 










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