Elon's Prediction

[mateo]

I say this lovingly, but Elon Musk has predicted a lot of things and I'm not sure any of them have come true.

Sponsored

 

[ShoreTang]

Paid in 0 stock, I have kids with special needs I can't gamble with things like that, but lucky enough to make a good salary. I'm not blind to the fact that others are being screwed heavily.

My take is that unions shouldn't even be a thing, you should feel comfortable enough to make a living without having to have meeting with your coworkers because you feel you're being screwed.

If people actually gave a crap and looked after each other this, thread probably wouldn't even exist and we likely wouldn't have a workers strike.

This^^^^

 

[nuMach]

direct labor on a vehicle in an assembly plant is 3 shifts ,,, 24 hours
so if they make $30/hr at 50% hike ,,, you are looking at 15x24, or $360 more

however in that 8 hour shift, they make more than 1 vehicle... more like 50/hour, so adding $7.25 per vehicle comes to $3000 increase?

No, its the performance bonus of the execs that will suffer, as their annual cost savings calculations will be wiped out.

 

[Mach1E]

direct labor on a vehicle in an assembly plant is 3 shifts ,,, 24 hours
so if they make $30/hr at 50% hike ,,, you are looking at 15x24, or $360 more

however in that 8 hour shift, they make more than 1 vehicle... more like 50/hour, so adding $7.25 per vehicle comes to $3000 increase?

No, its the performance bonus of the execs that will suffer, as their annual cost savings calculations will be wiped out.

I’m not understanding what you’re saying, but you are forgetting the paid day off they want.

That alone increases labor costs 20%.

As soon as we started talking math and real numbers…….. all the union supporters seemed to have disappeared.

 

[dbsb3233]

direct labor on a vehicle in an assembly plant is 3 shifts ,,, 24 hours
so if they make $30/hr at 50% hike ,,, you are looking at 15x24, or $360 more

however in that 8 hour shift, they make more than 1 vehicle... more like 50/hour, so adding $7.25 per vehicle comes to $3000 increase?

No, its the performance bonus of the execs that will suffer, as their annual cost savings calculations will be wiped out.

Um, you only counted one employee (or maybe 3, your approach was confusing). You forgot to multiply by thousands at each plant.

 

[dbsb3233]

Sheesh, still doesn’t answer the question.

All it says is they were about 10% off inflation in 2019.

Again……

what was the amount of increase from 2009 to 2023 compared to the 40% increase the executives got??

I don’t want to have to extrapolate. But if I did….. I know inflation was 43% over that time period. If 10% off, they would be around a 33% raise vs executives who got 40%.

How does this equal them asking for another 40%?? Stinkin fuzzy math.

It's all irrelevant anyway. The market for assembly like workers is completely different than the market for CEOs. Or from engineers. Or from designers, etc. Market pricing is based on supply and demand for that type of product or service or job function.

It's just like a trainer or ticket salesperson of an NFL team complaining about their pay relative to the starting QB. It's completely irrelevant.

 

[Rabidsquirrel22]

My goodness, how hard is it to get a straight answer??

The executive pay went up 40% (not adjusted for inflation).

How much (using the SAME math) did the union workers pay go up (not adjusted for inflation) in the same time period?

You really need to stop asking this question. You are poking too many holes in the narrative surrounding this strike and making their demands look completely irrational!

 

[nuMach]

Um, you only counted one employee (or maybe 3, your approach was confusing). You forgot to multiply by thousands at each plant.

good point not thousands anymore. but more like 600. used to be 2000 when I first started there. probably only 400 production workers. sections outsourced .. more robotic operations. 400 robots added to body weld shop alone. skilled trades reduced through attrition. engineering reduced through attrition and replaced with contract temps.
even so, 450 vehicles produced per shift on a good day. So I guess the added cost is closer to
$280/vehicle with 400 workers. Still a far cry from $3-5k increase projection.

$65,000 vehicle was $5000 profit at plant level. Ex mother in law had a Toyota dealership and she dropped one time gross sales profit as about 30%. However there were a lot of costs for the dealership, and those came out of the 30%... Gravy was in service,

 

[corradoborg]

I respectfully disagree. I made it to where I am, previous CEO of a company that went through investment rounds and eventually acquired, through a lot of hard work. There was no luck involved. No one helped me financially in my ventures until I proved to investors that I had something worth investing in. I fell many times but I never gave up.

My grandfather came to the USA as an immigrant at the age of 3 from Italy. Lived under bridges as a young adult in poverty. He founded, what is now, one of the top 100 largest construction companies in the USA. He will forever be my idol.

Most people are happy with their jobs and never try for more. Others don't have the desire to take risk. I don't believe that you can stop a dedicated individual. You may never be a millionaire, but self worth, drive and dedication at any income is all that matters. Anyone who has that doesn't complain about what others make.

Yes, a lot of luck was involved. Congratulations to you and your grandfather. I'm not saying both of you didn't put in a lot of hard work. But anecdotes are not evidence that this is possible for everyone. Self-worth, drive, and dedication don't pay the bills. There a millions of people throughout history who had all of those things in huge amounts, who still starved or froze to death due solely to a lack of financial success. Luck is literally the MAIN determinant of success.

 

[DevSecOps]

Yes, a lot of luck was involved. Congratulations to you and your grandfather. I'm not saying both of you didn't put in a lot of hard work. But anecdotes are not evidence that this is possible for everyone. Self-worth, drive, and dedication don't pay the bills. There a millions of people throughout history who had all of those things in huge amounts, who still starved or froze to death due solely to a lack of financial success. Luck is literally the MAIN determinant of success.

Myself and others strongly disagree. I would never tell anyone that you can only succeed if you are lucky. One of my mentees, born in Mexico, was a DACA kid and now works as a director of a state agency in California. I sponsored him and vouched for him because he worked his ass off for everything he did. I also mentored a kid who was separated from his parents at 15, went on to be in intelligence in the Marines and is now a deputy in Los Angeles. He had everything going against him. I don't believe in luck, nothing I did for any of these people was financial in nature. They earned everything they worked for. I could go on and on with examples.

In my humble opinion, barriers and luck are words used as pawns to keep people from excelling. Misery loves company and unfortunately, many times, those who don't want to work at things like convincing others that they can't achieve anything either unless they are "lucky". I don't subscribe to that, sorry.

Oxford defines Luck as - "success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."

 

[superdave80]

Luck is literally the MAIN determinant of success.

“Luck Is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity".

-Roman philosopher Seneca

 

[83girl]

Some of these replies are just so strange. Thinking that assembly line workers, basically robots, should be paid at in increase equal to a CEO is crazy. A C Suite Exec has the burden of performance and money on their shoulders 24/7. We have to prove that we can innovate and manage, whatever size, team below us while making profits for the company. We get rewarded, financially for doing so. An assembly line worker has none of that. Do you think these companies just run themselves?

What do you care what Farley makes? It's not about one man. Do I think a $33/hr assembly line worker should get a 40% raise plus one entire free day of pay, no I don't because in Michigan, for example, the average hourly wage is $16.32. What makes an assembly line worker worth $85 in their total compensation package? That's just bonkers.

If you want to stay competitive you have to pay competitively, not stupidly. Citing their earnings as a leverage in this argument is just an example of how there's a general lack of knowledge as to how companies are run.

Totally agree! And the fair compensation should start right at the top, with Fords stupidly overpaid CEO! The CEO of the company I work for is a medical doctor, makes less than half of what this clown at Ford does, and delivers life saving therapies to the world, on the cutting edge of medical science. Less than half. Just for some perspective...

 

[AKgrampy]

Totally agree! And the fair compensation should start right at the top, with Fords stupidly overpaid CEO! The CEO of the company I work for is a medical doctor, makes less than half of what this clown at Ford does, and delivers life saving therapies to the world, on the cutting edge of medical science. Less than half. Just for some perspective...

I guess we do not digress into the insane cost of medical care in the US and the mega profits of big pharma and I imagine the CEO’s of the big drug companies make big bucks and I would also guess many of the CEO’s of for profit hospital organizations make a lot of money. Yet hospital staff, CNS, admin, etc just get paid at market which is basically what commentators are saying about the UAW employees. There is a market for their skill and it is not the same market as a doctor. Lawyer, engineer, CEO, etc.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

It's all irrelevant anyway. The market for assembly like workers is completely different than the market for CEOs. Or from engineers. Or from designers, etc. Market pricing is based on supply and demand for that type of product or service or job function.

It's not completely irrelevant. Where do the salaries for everyone come from? The company's revenue. If someone is paid more it means that there is less to be put into something else, whether it is R&D, pension funds, or the salaries of other workers.

This is the part where there's a philosophical difference in management styles, though. Under the current culture, you're correct: the salary should be dictated only by how much others are paying for that position. The ideal salary is the lowest amount you can get away with so that your workers - especially those who are "unskilled" labor, more easily replaceable - stick with the job, and allows you to hire new workers in. Under that view, you don't really stand to gain anything by raising the salary unless you're having trouble hiring.

From what I've read, maybe from around the 1940's up until the 1960's, maybe the 1970's, there was a mainstream (but perhaps not majority) view that corporations could be forces of good in society. Recognizing that a strong middle class is needed for a strong nation and national economy, workers were treated well and paid well. Those were the days you heard about companies being loyal to their people, and people being loyal to their companies. Under that view, we should aspire to have larger, profitable companies doing more to share their wealth with their workers, enriching society as a whole in the process.

Myself and others strongly disagree. I would never tell anyone that you can only succeed if you are lucky. One of my mentees, born in Mexico, was a DACA kid and now works as a director of a state agency in California. I sponsored him and vouched for him because he worked his ass off for everything he did. I also mentored a kid who was separated from his parents at 15, went on to be in intelligence in the Marines and is now a deputy in Los Angeles. He had everything going against him. I don't believe in luck, nothing I did for any of these people was financial in nature. They earned everything they worked for. I could go on and on with examples.

corradoborg's point is that you're downplaying the luck factor quite badly. What you've written sounds the same to me as reading those stories about how famous singers or movie stars got their big break. You've probably heard it before, but the cautionary tale against trying to be a star is that for every inspiring story you read from someone who make it are hundreds more who worked just as hard and never got their big break. In the cases you've mentioned, you've overlooked one major luck factor: the fact that these people you sponsored and mentored met you at all. I'm not trying to butter you up with that, but it's literally right in front of your face. What if instead of meeting you they had met someone with malicious intent, or who maybe who was well-meaning but still led them astray? And there are probably tens of thousands or other individuals who worked just as hard (if not harder) and yet never met you or someone like you, and also never got their big break. You're not wrong to point out that there are plenty of people who don't develop their talents and squander their opportunities, but the error is in focusing on that.

Nobody is saying that whether you succeed or fail is purely down to luck. Yet luck - being in the right place at the right time - is immense. Talent and hard work skew things in your favor, but in most cases you still need to get your foot in the door.

 

[thekat03]

The problem with saying financial success is influenced by luck vs only skill and hard work... Neither is truly correct. Well, it might be, unless you are a woman. Or black. Or Hispanic. Or have a foreign accent. Or are LGBTQ. But that's the unpleasant part that people often prefer to gloss over.

Sponsored