Heater not working.

[Mach-Lee]

FYI motor heat cannot be transferred into the cabin.

The coolant loop for the motors is not connected to the cabin/battery loop, so motor heat cannot be recovered to heat the cabin. It's physically impossible to transfer heat because the loops aren't connected, and there's no heat exchanger between them either. A lot of people have this misconception. Motor heat gets removed by the radiator to outside air only.

The only heat you can recover into the cabin comes from the battery, but is very minimal because lithium batteries do not really produce much heat unless they are DC charging. The only significant source of heat you can use is the HV heater.

Therefore you must turn on E-heat if you want any heat in the cabin. This is just how it's designed folks!

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[RMoore]

So unlike other cars where the auto setting is really auto, in the Mach E the auto setting is only truly auto in cold weather if E heat is on (and in warm weather if it’s off)? Or did I misunderstand?

 

[SnBGC]

So I just rewatched, he doesn't mention a heat exchange but he mentions a chiller which I assumed was a heat exchanger. The battery and PTC heater run on the same loop according to Sandy's crew

Yes. The chiller is a heat exchanger. They are correct.
The battery and TFE heater are on separate cooling loops that can be connected or shared. They are isolated loops that can be combined if the car chooses. It does that via a diverter valve shown here:

The Munro boys keep calling it a PTC heater......heck, I did too. But now that I see it in that video, it doesn't look like PTC at all to me. The PTC heater in my Focus was about the size of a shoebox. MUCH larger than that what the Mach-E has. Judging by the size of that thing....it has to be a Thick Film Element type. There is no way a PTC of that size would come close to warming the battery and cabin. At least, not any PTC that I've seen anyway.... ?

 

[SnBGC]

FYI motor heat cannot be transferred into the cabin.

The coolant loop for the motors is not connected to the cabin/battery loop, so motor heat cannot be recovered to heat the cabin. It's physically impossible to transfer heat because the loops aren't connected, and there's no heat exchanger between them either. A lot of people have this misconception. Motor heat gets removed by the radiator to outside air only.

The only heat you can recover into the cabin comes from the battery, but is very minimal because lithium batteries do not really produce much heat unless they are DC charging. The only significant source of heat you can use is the HV heater.

Therefore you must turn on E-heat if you want any heat in the cabin. This is just how it's designed folks!

Agreed.
I think one of the reasons why people think the motor heat can be transferred into the cabin is because the WorkShop Manual says so.

A statement that I strongly question the accuracy of by the way.......for the same reasons you mention.....those cooling loops are separated.

I think the WSM is wrong in that regard.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I watched one of the videos. He shows the chiller and the heater core.
They also show the cabin cooler heater which does NOT appear to be a PTC heater. It looks exactly like a TFE (Thick Film Element) type. This is the same type of coolant heater that is used in many Ford vehicles already (such as diesel powered vehicles). Looks like a dual plate type to me.

Probably a BorgWarner unit.

It looks like a PTC heater made by Eberspächer.

https://www.eberspaecher.com/en/press/media-service/pictures/electrical-heaters-1

 

[kdryden99]

Yes. The chiller is a heat exchanger. They are correct.
The battery and TFE heater are on separate cooling loops that can be connected or shared. They are isolated loops that can be combined if the car chooses. It does that via a diverter valve shown here:

The Munro boys keep calling it a PTC heater......heck, I did too. But now that I see it in that video, it doesn't look like PTC at all to me. The PTC heater in my Focus was about the size of a shoebox. MUCH larger than that what the Mach-E has. Judging by the size of that thing....it has to be a Thick Film Element type. There is no way a PTC of that size would come close to warming the battery and cabin. At least, not any PTC that I've seen anyway.... ?

Agreed.
I think one of the reasons why people think the motor heat can be transferred into the cabin is because the WorkShop Manual says so.

A statement that I strongly question the accuracy of by the way.......for the same reasons you mention.....those cooling loops are separated.

I think the WSM is wrong in that regard.

So in reality MR.Palmer and the manual were not accurate. Maybe originally it was intended but a decision needed to be made and this was changed. It would explain the extra pump which Debra wants to remove.

It kind of sucks because I really want to not have pay a range penalty on my long drives, but it gets do cold I have no choice. Hopefully the hit won't be too bad.

 

[SnBGC]

So unlike other cars where the auto setting is really auto, in the Mach E the auto setting is only truly auto in cold weather if E heat is on (and in warm weather if it’s off)? Or did I misunderstand?

Hmmmm.....
Well, I would caveat that a bit.
Auto is Auto.....but in mild weather you can disable E-Heat so Auto is limited in its ability to make heat. Sounds like in really cold weather then Auto takes over. Pretty much the same thing happens in really hot weather.....Auto takes over and runs Max A/C and even if you don't have it enabled.

I don't know about recirc. I have never seen the car turn that on my itself. Maybe it does.....I just don't look at that screen that frequently. ???

 

[SnBGC]

It looks like a PTC heater made by Eberspächer.

https://www.eberspaecher.com/en/press/media-service/pictures/electrical-heaters-1

Sure does. Thanks for that link.
Awfully small though.......???
At any rate. It says PTC so it must be one.
Cool. Thanks!

 

[Mach-Lee]

Sure does. Thanks for that link.
Awfully small though.......???
At any rate. It says PTC so it must be one.
Cool. Thanks!

See the sticker there. Only rated for 298V so at 350V pack voltage it's probably putting out more like 6 kW.

 

[SnBGC]

So in reality MR.Palmer and the manual were not accurate. Maybe originally it was intended but a decision needed to be made and this was changed. It would explain the extra pump which Debra wants to remove.

It kind of sucks because I really want to not have pay a range penalty on my long drives, but it gets do cold I have no choice. Hopefully the hit won't be too bad.

I think Debra will need to rethink that statement.
If that pump is the auxiliary pump in the motor circuit then it should probably stay. We are seeing motors and electronics overheating up front on AWD models.

 

[RMoore]

Hmmmm.....
Well, I would caveat that a bit.
Auto is Auto.....but in mild weather you can disable E-Heat so Auto is limited in its ability to make heat. Sounds like in really cold weather then Auto takes over. Pretty much the same thing happens in really hot weather.....Auto takes over and runs Max A/C and even if you don't have it enabled.

I don't know about recirc. I have never seen the car turn that on my itself. Maybe it does.....I just don't look at that screen that frequently. ???

Sorry, still unclear on something you wrote: when you say in really cold weather auto takes over, does it turn E heat on for you or do you have to do that as well?

 

[kdryden99]

Sorry, still unclear on something you wrote: when you say in really cold weather auto takes over, does it turn E heat on for you or do you have to do that as well?

Auto turns E-heat on. No need to turn it on manually

 

[kdryden99]

I will test tomorrow but I suspect that auto will turn on the fan, e-heat, ac, seat warmer and steering wheel warmer in really cold weather. Itll be close to 30 tomorrow morning so I'll see.

 

[BMT1071]

These past couple of weeks it has been low 60s F ambient when I leave for work and the car is warm inside because I have it set to pre-condition. When I start the car and back out of the driveway, I sometimes notice that my seat heater is on. Sometimes on really cool mornings the steering wheel heater is on also. My climate is on Auto set to 74 degrees and I feel some warm air but not much. Just barely luke warm I suppose. I check E-Heat and it is still turned off. It doesn't turn on even if I have my climate set to Auto and the interior desired temp is about 10 degrees warmer than ambient air outside.

After about 10 miles, the air coming from the registers is much cooler and feels pretty much like ambient air outside. Again, E-Heat is still off. This leads me to believe that the battery isn't really all that helpful in producing waste heat at those temps. I usually just turn off the climate control at that point because I just have an aversion to E-Heat (something I need to come to terms with I guess....). By the time Jan and Feb arrive.....I will certainly be using the E-Heat to supplement the seat and steering wheel heat.

Which temp setting have you been using during pre-conditioning, medium or warm?

 

[kdryden99]

Which temp setting have you been using during pre-conditioning, medium or warm?

I have left it on cool and found it to be warm enough in morning. Steering wheel an seat warmed up nicely

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