HOA Compliant

[phidauex]

Last year I had a NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed by a licensed electrician who is very skilled. I typically have my FMC plugged in most of the time. Everything has been working great. The receptacle is outside, in a waterproof housing box. I live in a place that doesn’t see much rain.

I just got notice from my HOA for a cease and desist letter saying that I need to have a permit for the charger. This is annoying to say the least. There is concern that the setup isn’t weatherproof or rated for the outdoors. How would you approach this? I’ve unplugged my charger and closed the receptacle housing box, will take pictures and send them. Any other ideas?

I hate HOAs (and I run a 3-unit HOA personally). Fortunately in this case your HOA has almost zero rights regarding their claim. I'm assuming from your profile that you are in CA, so Civil Code 4745 explicitly protects you in this case (emphasis mine):

4745. (a) Any covenant, restriction, or condition contained in any deed, contract, security instrument, or other instrument affecting the transfer or sale of any interest in a common interest development, and any provision of a governing document, as defined in Section 4150, that either effectively prohibits or unreasonably restricts the installation or use of an electric vehicle charging station within an owner’s unit or in a designated parking space, including, but not limited to, a deeded parking space, a parking space in an owner’s exclusive use common area, or a parking space that is specifically designated for use by a particular owner, or is in conflict with this section is void and unenforceable.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=4745.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I do know how to read. Many states now have provisions like these, but HOAs don't typically go through and clean up their bylaws regularly, so nearly every HOA has at least one completely illegal provision on the books that just sits there until someone challenges it.

Read further down - if the installation is in a common use area then they do have some additional rights such as requiring that you send an application to request it (which they can't deny) and adding them as a named insured on your insurance policy. So some hoops are allowed, but they can't simply say no.

In this case I'd probably handle it politely at first, a reply along the lines of "Hi, thanks for your concern, this charger was installed by a licensed electrician according to the California Electric Code, and is safe and legal to operate." If your electrician got an electrical permit, then show the inspection record. If he didn't, then it might not be a bad idea to get a permit for the work and have it inspected.

If they push back again, then turn up the pressure...

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[CompilerBreak]

FYI, a signed off permit means absolutely nothing. If you read it you’ll see a statement to the fact that the inspector makes zero guarantees that the installation is correct and up to code. Makes me wonder why I have to pay $300 for an EV outlet permit…

Anyone can look up issued permits online, the HOA is probably just being nosy. I can’t stand HOA Karena and Kens. Most of what they enforce are all city codes anyways. It’s a complete waste of money and in my area it can be quite the monthly fee as well.

While it may not guarantee correct work, permitting (or more specifically, not getting a permit) absolutely does mean something when it comes to Insurance, HOAs, selling your house, etc...

 

[mjs020294]

FYI, a signed off permit means absolutely nothing. If you read it you’ll see a statement to the fact that the inspector makes zero guarantees that the installation is correct and up to code. Makes me wonder why I have to pay $300 for an EV outlet permit…

Not having a permit means your insurance company have a get out of liability free card, plus if someone dies in a fire you probably get a go straight to jail card.

 

[Motomax]

Not having a permit means your insurance company have a get out of liability free card, plus if someone dies in a fire you probably get a go straight to jail card.

If you installed it wrong and kill someone, your permit won’t help you lol. Btw my “inspector” didn’t look behind a single panel. He has no idea what size wiring I used. If my house burns down because I used undersized wiring, my permit is useless.
when I sell the house I’m 100% removing all the electrical work I did because that permit means I’m responsible even if the next owner screws with it.

 

[DennisD]

Bob puts in a 240v charger outside his garage, and grounds it to the flagpole in his yard, that sits in a pool of water when it rains.

Mary, his neighbor, shares that pool of water because her lawn is lower than Bob's. Mary lets her dog, Muffy, into the yard and Muffy turns into a crispy critter.

Even in a single family unit, HOAs care about you doing stupid things that may affect your neighbors, or the common areas (i.e. the street by the charger you installed).

Anyone not checking with their city/town regarding permit requires before installing a level 2 charger is asking for a future problem IMO.

First off, I totally agree with you on all points.

With that being said, to my knowledge the power is only "active" when plugged into the car. My electrician told me that there is no power going through the cord until it is "switched" on through plugging it in to the car.

My electrician may have been filling me full of crap, but according to that it seems to be pretty fail proof of getting electrocuted. I think Muffy will live to see another day if this is true?

Does anybody know this to be true?

 

[timbop]

First off, I totally agree with you on all points.

With that being said, to my knowledge the power is only "active" when plugged into the car. My electrician told me that there is no power going through the cord until it is "switched" on through plugging it in to the car.

My electrician may have been filling me full of crap, but according to that it seems to be pretty fail proof of getting electrocuted. I think Muffy will live to see another day if this is true?

Does anybody know this to be true?

Well, firstly the hypothetical isn't even close to how it should be wired and even if it was the ground would NEVER carry current unless there was a short or other major problem - so there are a couple of fallacies built-in to the premise. As for the thick cable that goes from the EVSE to the car (ie the J1772 plug) the high voltage wires inside are not active unless it is plugged in, communicating with the car, and the car is asking for a charge through the low voltage control lines.

 

[phidauex]

I think there are a few misconceptions floating around here about the nature of liability and negligence. However, I think most would agree that getting a permit for your work is the best practice.

It would be very hard for an EVSE to cause a safety problem - they don't close their contactors until the car indicates it is ready AND there is no ground fault measured. The outlet itself could cause a safety problem if poorly installed, but that would be the same kind of safety problem that would be caused by external lighting, garage door openers, AC compressors, and every other form of outdoor electronics - nothing EV related.

 

[WWJPD]

Assuming you are in a single family unit & have proper permitting(if you don't - have electrician get it), then ask the HOA to specify the bylaws that are in violation. Assuming they can't provide it, tell them to F off.

 

[Valkyrie]

In some ways this is akin to asking ICE age owners if they have HOA permission to store a tank of highly flammable and corrosive liquids in their driveways. (Setting aside the proper EV charger permit installation rules) =P

@phidauex has it right, California state law removes the HOA's teeth on the EV charger installation debate.
https://hoalaw.tinnellylaw.com/new-law-expands-rights-to-use-ev-charging-stations-in-hoas/

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

Huh? I had a Level 2 charger installed in Dec. of 2020 (to get the 30% Fed rebate).

Are you guys saying I should have pulled a permit with the county? In addition contacted my Homeowners Insurance? As well as received permission from HOA?

Single Family (Detached), HOA regulated
Charger in the Garage, not visible from outside.

 

[RickMachE]

Huh? I had a Level 2 charger installed in Dec. of 2020 (to get the 30% Fed rebate).

Are you guys saying I should have pulled a permit with the county? In addition contacted my Homeowners Insurance? As well as received permission from HOA?

Single Family (Detached), HOA regulated
Charger in the Garage, not visible from outside.

You very likely needed a permit. Contact insurance company? No. HOA permission inside your garage? Highly unlikely.

 

[AKgrampy]

As mentioned ask exactly what rules are being violated so you know what, if anything, needs to be corrected. My father-in-law’s HOA will permit things to be mounted outside his dwelling but they have to be painted to match the wall. So in his case he would need to paint an EVSE the same color as his house if he ever wanted to install one outside (never going to happen in his case.) Seems ridiculous but you know the rules when you choose to move in.

 

[timbop]

Huh? I had a Level 2 charger installed in Dec. of 2020 (to get the 30% Fed rebate).

Are you guys saying I should have pulled a permit with the county? In addition contacted my Homeowners Insurance? As well as received permission from HOA?

Single Family (Detached), HOA regulated
Charger in the Garage, not visible from outside.

Since it is inside a single family dwelling I would expect the HOA has no bearing. Getting a permit (which then would lead to an inspection) from your local jurisdiction absolutely should have been done. I don't think you need to proactively notify your insurance company, but in the event of a fire caused by the circuit they may deny a claim if there was no permit or inspection.

 

[SuperRob]

Hey all,

Last year I had a NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed by a licensed electrician who is very skilled. I typically have my FMC plugged in most of the time. Everything has been working great. The receptacle is outside, in a waterproof housing box. I live in a place that doesn’t see much rain.

I just got notice from my HOA for a cease and desist letter saying that I need to have a permit for the charger. This is annoying to say the least. There is concern that the setup isn’t weatherproof or rated for the outdoors. How would you approach this? I’ve unplugged my charger and closed the receptacle housing box, will take pictures and send them. Any other ideas?

I was the president of my local HOA for ~2 years, but this was a townhome development, so the units were connected and fire risk was taken seriously. Our policy is that for something like this, you needed to apply for an accommodation with the HOA prior to starting any work. We would probably require them to use a licensed, bonded, and insured electrician, and approved hardware. We offer options to our owners to help accommodate their needs while still protecting home values and help them without requiring them to do a bunch of the legwork, right down to recommendations for the electricians that have done work in the development for other residents.

in your case (this is not legal advice), I’d say not getting the HOA’s recommendation was a mistake, but not much you can do about that. All you can do now is plead ignorance, make sure that what you have complies with their rules, and possibly get an affidavit from the electrician that the work meets the necessary requirements.

 

[Mach-Lee]

What are the chances OP is ever going to reply to this topic...

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