Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[Nak]

"Absolutely" is about a firm a sign I can give that I agreed with your statement. In fact, Elon just gave a sign he agrees with you too. I'm watching "Battery Day" right now and he stated the next goal is a fully autonomous electric car for $25K. (Among many other things. Batteries are about to get amazingly better.)

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[ChasingCoral]

Apples and oranges. Argo, Waymo, etc are developing a different kind of autonomous vehicle than Tesla. The Argo/Waymo model requires a heavily detailed map for a small geographic area. Every driveway, every pothole, every curb will be mapped. Get outside of the vehicle's geographic area and it's useless. Tesla is attempting to develop an AI that will recognize potholes and curbs and driveways, etc. A Tesla vehicle will--if Tesla is successful--be able to drive virtually anywhere. Regardless, both systems once complete won't be for privately owned cars. Rather, they'll be for commercial use only. Tesla's FSD when--and if--complete will cost in excess of $100K. Ford is not days or months behind in this, they're not even in the same game as Tesla. Tesla is the only company that has the data required to even try and build an AI driver. Almost every Tesla car on the road is gathering data every day. That data has taken years to gather; no one else can gather that data at this time.

For a lot of people, autonomous driving really isn't going to be a factor in their decision. If you don't care to be part of this effort, it's about as relevant to you as who builds the better fighter jet. It's interesting to be sure, but i f you don't want to invest a sizeable sum in a system that may or may not become fully autonomous then it's only that: interesting.

Actually, not apples and oranges at all. That would be like saying Mustangs don't benefit from NASCAR because their cars only turn left and drive so much faster.

Ford has made it clear that Argo is providing experience that feeds into both Level 4-5 fully-autonomous driving but will also provide key insights into the Level 2+ autonomy we'll see in the Mach E, F-150 and others.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Elon has already said that FSD would be "Over $100K" once the system is fully functional. That's going to be a bit much for most people to afford. For a taxi or delivery business, it would be well worth the price.

If Tesla succeeds, current Teslas that have FSD now will be fully autonomous. That's the real benefit currently. Your car could be worth triple what you paid for it. If Tesla doesn't succeed, You overpaid for FSD by a couple of thousand dollars depending on how early and how cheap you got in. It's a gamble. For me, it was an excellent gamble already. I bought a 3, a Y and stock. I sold some stock after the split and the gains after taxes paid for both of my Teslas. So, I'm pretty happy with Tesla right now. FSD wasn't much of a gamble at all for me. If it pays off, I'll be ecstatic. It'll be nice to have a car that will drive me around when I'm old and feeble. Or I may buy an E and put both Teslas to work. If FSD never becomes autonomous, I still have two free cars.

Sorry, but based on analysis by experts in this field, the hardware in current Teslas will never be fully autonomous.

Here's just one example:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/30/18204427/tesla-autopilot-elon-musk-full-self-driving-confusion

Full Self Driving is not.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Because the current cars do not have the hardware necessary for fully autonomous operation.

 

[mamejunkie]

This is similar to how big pharm justify the cost of a break through medication. The actual material cost of a pill may be pennies but the R&D cost is huge. PLUS as a company in a capitalistic society, they want to charge as much as they can. FSD is the same, you cant just look a the cost of the sensors, wires, electronics. Somehow they want to justify the armies of engineers, server farms...and exec bonuses.

On the flip side, companies such as Uber, FedEx...will have bean counters figure out what is more cost effective for them. One time hit of $100k or hiring a low skill workers and deal with workers comp, raising 'employee' cost, unions.

 

[ChasingCoral]

You are absolutely correct. Tesla claims they do. And yet in recent months they have failed to stop from simulated pedestrians, have hit parked or stopped semi trucks and even hit a police car on the side of the road.

Tesla has claimed they can be self-driving. Many independent experts in automotive autonomy disagree completely.

 

[zhackwyatt]

You are absolutely correct. Tesla claims they do. And yet in recent months they have failed to stop from simulated pedestrians, have hit parked or stopped semi trucks and even hit a police car on the side of the road.

Tesla has claimed they can be self-driving. Many independent experts in automotive autonomy disagree completely.

Don't need an independent expert -- I'll tell you. If Tesla releases full L4 or 5 self driving within a couple years regulators are going to jump in so fast to put a stop to it. Why? Accidents will be abound. Smart Summon is garbage compared to the capability needed for autonomous driving.

As someone who has ridden in a self-driving car made by a company who has their s**t together, Waymo, its very obvious how far ahead they are. And they weren't promising an unoccupied car driving from New York to LA in 2017.

 

[Nak]

You are absolutely correct. Tesla claims they do. And yet in recent months they have failed to stop from simulated pedestrians, have hit parked or stopped semi trucks and even hit a police car on the side of the road.

You might want to do some research on the difference between "hardware" and "software". BTW, average collisions per million miles driven: 2.1. Average collisions per million miles driven while Tesla AP engaged: .3. "Autopilot" does NOT infer autonomous driving. As a former military and international airline pilot with almost 40 years professional aviation experience, I can say with no reservations that the Tesla AP as it sits is the finest autopilot I have used. However, it by no stretch of the imagination should be un-monitored. That is Tesla's claim and they are correct. You must be prepared to take over at all times, as with ANY autopilot.

Tesla has claimed they can be self-driving. Many independent experts in automotive autonomy disagree completely.

Yep. Time will tell. Neither you nor I are qualified to even have an informed opinion.

As someone who has ridden in a self-driving car made by a company who has their s**t together, Waymo, its very obvious how far ahead they are. And they weren't promising an unoccupied car driving from New York to LA in 2017.

Apples and oranges. Waymo isn't ahead because they are in a totally different game. I'll agree that they are ahead in developing a geofenced self driving car that relies on detailed route programing and extremely detailed maps. Saying Waymo is ahead is like saying the Portland Trailblazers are a better basketball team than the Seattle Seahawks. Tesla isn't involved in that type of research. What they're trying to do is so far beyond what Waymo is trying to do that I would expect it just might be a little bit more difficult.

I hope Tesla is successful because it would be so cool to have an AI in a car that could actually drive. Will Tesla be successful? I have no clue, along with everyone else that isn't privy to Tesla's research. (Nobody here.) Opinions are great, everyone has one.

 

[zhackwyatt]

Apples and oranges. Waymo isn't ahead because they are in a totally different game. I'll agree that they are ahead in developing a geofenced self driving car that relies on detailed route programing and extremely detailed maps. Saying Waymo is ahead is like saying the Portland Trailblazers are a better basketball team than the Seattle Seahawks. Tesla isn't involved in that type of research. What they're trying to do is so far beyond what Waymo is trying to do that I would expect it just might be a little bit more difficult.

I hope Tesla is successful because it would be so cool to have an AI in a car that could actually drive. Will Tesla be successful? I have no clue, along with everyone else that isn't privy to Tesla's research. (Nobody here.) Opinions are great, everyone has one.

It is not apples and oranges. They are trying to accomplish the same thing, just going about it differently. I agree Waymo has limitations too, but it can drive itself, from crowded parking lot to crowded parking lot. Tesla can't do that. So in my opinion Tesla is behind.

I wouldn't be so bitter if Tesla said, "Look, we're working on this. It's hard. It may take us 10 years or so. Oh and we won't promise something, charge you for it, and not deliver on it."'

I hope they are both successful.

 

[eastern refugee]

so Tesla has more gadgets. As everyone says Tesla is a tech company making cars. If I wanted Chrome, Netflix and Bluetooth I would save the $60,000 and spend $400 on a laptop or better yet sit on my comfortable couch watching g my 65 inch Samsung smart TV. See I can name drop too.

however I want to DRIVE SAFELY. I cannot watch Netflix and pay attention to the road. Personally when I am spending $60,000 on a car I want the panels to line up. I want the finish to be smooth as glass. I want to KNOW that whenI am driving at 85 MPH I have a CAR around me and not a tech company experimenting with being a car company.

Tesla is a phenomenal tech company. The problem is that they should have teamed up with a car company so that both sides of the spectrum would produce something phenomenal.

if you feel Tesla is Louis Vuitton and the MME is a cheap knock off then please go to a Tesla forum where you feel among your own kind.I am a Ford guy. I know that the MME is fords first foray into the real BEV world and the MME is making a super cool statement. Give them 2 years and you will see Shelby and Rousch versions. Geee Tesla cannot say that. MME is cool in sooooo many ways. It was NEVER trying to be a tech company but rather a BEV built for both nerds and car people together.

 

[trutolife27]

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