Mach-E AWD vs. Toyota RAV4 Prime

[silverelan]

RAV4 Prime has some pretty interesting specs as a PHEV that make it a good cross shopping competitor against the Mustang Mach-E AWD. Consumer Reports says it may be the best RAV4 they've tested.

• 302hp
• 5.6 seconds 0-60 (multiple media tests).
• 42 miles of EV range
• 600 miles total range

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33028735/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-xse-by-the-numbers/

https://www.consumerreports.org/suvs/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-review/

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[generaltso]

The RAV4 Prime looks fantastic if you’re in the market for a PHEV. But I’ve been driving an Outlander PHEV for a couple years, and I spend most of my time trying to drive in a way that will prevent the engine from starting so that I can do all of my driving in EV mode. I’ve decided that it will be much easier to prevent the engine from starting by just getting a car without an engine.

 

[Billyk24]

RAV4 Prime has some pretty interesting specs as a PHEV that make it a good cross shopping competitor against the Mustang Mach-E AWD. Consumer Reports says it may be the best RAV4 they've tested.

• 302hp
• 5.6 seconds 0-60 (multiple media tests).
• 42 miles of EV range
• 600 miles total range

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33028735/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-xse-by-the-numbers/

https://www.consumerreports.org/suvs/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-review/

Toyota has a major issue with obtaining batteries. Only 5000 USA vehicles via this report: https://insideevs.com/news/431612/toyota-rav4-prime-us-limited-availability/

One issue with PHEV, the HVB size is not large. When driving in EV at higher speeds, going up hills, under heavy loads will stress the HVB and will/can raise it's temperature. Higher (too high) temperatures contribute to degradation. A passive cooled HVB in a PHEV might struggle with managing temperature during the summer. One needs to monitor the PHEV HVB temperature via third party hardware and take preventive measures.

 

[JamieGeek]

The RAV4 Prime looks fantastic if you’re in the market for a PHEV. But I’ve been driving an Outlander PHEV for a couple years, and I spend most of my time trying to drive in a way that will prevent the engine from starting so that I can do all of my driving in EV mode. I’ve decided that it will be much easier to prevent the engine from starting by just getting a car without an engine.

I went from the Focus Electric to the C-Max Energi. I got used to not having an engine to having an engine. (Then to the Bolt.)

On that C-Max I was always trying to prevent the engine from starting.

The other thing that bugs me when I drive a gas car: knowing that when I hit the brakes all that energy for braking is being wasted as heat instead of charging a battery....

Of course all that goes out the window when driving the RV as I know its just a huge waste LOL.

 

[Billyk24]

The RAV4 hybrid and Prime have 4wd with a third motor/generator on the rear wheel. I was shocked on how much more braking and coasting energy is captured (more than 2x compared to the CMax PHEV) by this system.

 

[engnrng]

I went from the Focus Electric to the C-Max Energi. I got used to not having an engine to having an engine. (Then to the Bolt.)

On that C-Max I was always trying to prevent the engine from starting.

The other thing that bugs me when I drive a gas car: knowing that when I hit the brakes all that energy for braking is being wasted as heat instead of charging a battery....

Of course all that goes out the window when driving the RV as I know its just a huge waste LOL.

I also drove a CMAX Energi for a few years. Mine had excellent braking regen. Watched it with my ScanGauge meter. When I first owned the car, I went nearly 2000 miles before my 2nd fill up with gas (dealer failed to charge the battery before I took delivery!). PHEV is great for dual purpose.

 

[Badger_Prof]

The RAV4 hybrid and Prime have 4wd with a third motor/generator on the rear wheel. I was shocked on how much more braking and coasting energy is captured (more than 2x compared to the CMax PHEV) by this system.

Technically, I think the RAV4 Hybrid and Prime have AWD, not 4WD. Our RAV4 Hybrid AWD does a great job in the snow and on wet roads!

 

[Billyk24]

Technically, I think the RAV4 Hybrid and Prime have AWD, not 4WD. Our RAV4 Hybrid AWD does a great job in the snow and on wet roads!

I also have a 2016 RAV4 Hybrid. It goes into 4wd upon start, quickly disengages after reaching 10mph and will not re-engage until the front wheels actually slip. Once re-engaged, it does not stay engaged for "long"., Driven this in snow in northern Wisconsin, Michigan and New York and monitored the system with my scanguage II hardware. It really can't be called AWD as it does not stay in 4WD all the time.

 

[Badger_Prof]

I also have a 2016 RAV4 Hybrid. It goes into 4wd upon start, quickly disengages after reaching 10mph and will not re-engage until the front wheels actually slip. Once re-engaged, it does not stay engaged for "long"., Driven this in snow in northern Wisconsin, Michigan and New York and monitored the system with my scanguage II hardware. It really can't be called AWD as it does not stay in 4WD all the time.

Picking nits here but I believe the RAV4 has what is called "Part-time AWD" not four-wheel drive. From Edmonds:
"What Is All-Wheel Drive?
As the name implies, all-wheel-drive systems power both the front and rear wheels all the time. But in practice, there are actually two types of drivetrains that are called AWD. One does, in fact, drive all the wheels continuously, and some manufacturers refer to this as full-time AWD. The second, often called part-time AWD or automatic AWD, operates most of the time in two-wheel-drive mode, with power delivered to all four corners only when additional traction control is needed.

4WD systems tend to be more robust than AWD ones and can generally handle more rugged terrain. And they, too, come in two types: full-time and part-time. Many 4WD systems also have low and high ranges that can be selected by the driver, either with an electronic switch or a floor-mounted mechanical lever."

Our RAV4 Hybrid has automatic AWD. My old IH Scout had lock-out hubs to engage or disengage the power to the front axle. It was a manual version of part-time 4WD where I had to stop the vehicle, get out, and manually turn the lock out hubs to engage or disengage the front axle. It also had a second shifter that switched between low and high ranges.

Sorry about the nit-picking but you raised an interesting question. I was not sure of the answer so I researched it a bit.

The Mach-E AWD appears to match the "automatic AWD" definition.

 

[Billyk24]

Picking nits here but I believe the RAV4 has what is called "Part-time AWD" not four-wheel drive. From Edmonds:
"What Is All-Wheel Drive?
As the name implies, all-wheel-drive systems power both the front and rear wheels all the time. But in practice, there are actually two types of drivetrains that are called AWD. One does, in fact, drive all the wheels continuously, and some manufacturers refer to this as full-time AWD. The second, often called part-time AWD or automatic AWD, operates most of the time in two-wheel-drive mode, with power delivered to all four corners only when additional traction control is needed.

4WD systems tend to be more robust than AWD ones and can generally handle more rugged terrain. And they, too, come in two types: full-time and part-time. Many 4WD systems also have low and high ranges that can be selected by the driver, either with an electronic switch or a floor-mounted mechanical lever."

Our RAV4 Hybrid has automatic AWD. My old IH Scout had lock-out hubs to engage or disengage the power to the front axle. It was a manual version of part-time 4WD where I had to stop the vehicle, get out, and manually turn the lock out hubs to engage or disengage the front axle. It also had a second shifter that switched between low and high ranges.

Sorry about the nit-picking but you raised an interesting question. I was not sure of the answer so I researched it a bit.

The Mach-E AWD appears to match the "automatic AWD" definition.

It is also referred to as a "hang-on" system as found in my former 4wd 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid. Two wheel drive but when you press the accelerator at any speed and in any condition, the rear wheels would engage and the slowly disengage when under cruise conditions. Perfect system for us Wisconsin natives. Worked well at my home in northern Wisconsin.

 

[Machemark]

I really like the Rav4 Hybrid and PHEV. Toyota really nailed it.

I wish it was a full EV however.

We currently have a Prius and it's been an awesome car. The Toyota checks all of the boxes, but I really think in some ways the Mach E is more practical and desirable for me.

If I lived in a more rugged place I would certainly get the the Rav4, but since I just commute to work and back the Mach E seems to be the better fit.

 

[abr]

I really like the Rav4 Hybrid and PHEV. Toyota really nailed it.

I wish it was a full EV however.

We currently have a Prius and it's been an awesome car. The Toyota checks all of the boxes, but I really think in some ways the Mach E is more practical and desirable for me.

If I lived in a more rugged place I would certainly get the the Rav4, but since I just commute to work and back the Mach E seems to be the better fit.

Given how few of the Rav4 PHEV will be made, you will not have much chance of getting one unless you want to pay ADM.

 

[Machemark]

Given how few of the Rav4 PHEV will be made, you will not have much chance of getting one unless you want to pay ADM.

Absolutely. When the hybrid was released (last year?) a local dealer had it marked up 15k. It was ridiculous.

So I can imagine what the markups would be again this year and next.

 

[Orangefirefish]

Absolutely. When the hybrid was released (last year?) a local dealer had it marked up 15k. It was ridiculous.

So I can imagine what the markups would be again this year and next.

Even at MSRP I think it’s priced high, likely reflecting the battery constraints and the tax credit. While I can see there are use cases for this PHEV... you can go full BEV for not much more.

 

[highland58]

The RAV4 Prime looks fantastic if you’re in the market for a PHEV. But I’ve been driving an Outlander PHEV for a couple years, and I spend most of my time trying to drive in a way that will prevent the engine from starting so that I can do all of my driving in EV mode. I’ve decided that it will be much easier to prevent the engine from starting by just getting a car without an engine.

That is my main complaint about my Clarity, the car will start the engine without my wanting it to. If I step on the go pedal too hard it will start. If my battery is full and I go down a hill the engine may start (regen issue with full battery). When it starts it wants to run for several minutes to warm up. If I shut the car off to stop the engine, it may just start again if it is not warmed up enough. I agree that it will be much easier to prevent the engine from starting by just getting a car without an engine. The biggest reason for owning a BEV vs PHEV or ICE may be the cost of ownership and the decreased maintenance.

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