Our Ongoing Nightmare

[Theamurican]

I'm sorry you're having these problems. It sucks and I would hate for this to happen to me.

I'm no lemon law expert, but would you be able to lemon law Boo? I realize they've had it 30 days, but as you mentioned, they didn't even do anything with the car for two weeks. I'm not sure the shop being too busy to start working on it would count toward lemon law repair time limits. Also, the problems with Boo seem to be shop related, not car related. Boo seems to be the more reliable of the two. Apollo stranded you in the middle of nowhere. If I were going to get rid of one of them, I would want to get rid of Apollo and keep Boo (once the current situation is resolved)

There are a few ways a car can be a lemon in WA, including being at the dealer for repairs for a cumulative amount of 30 days during the warranty period.

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[mikeho]

I have one Mach-E and the same problem with the "Stop Safely Now" message. Towed it to the dealership. They reprogrammed the car, charged up the 12v, and things seemed to be fine.

A week later, it happened again. It got towed back to the dealership and is sitting there now. After some investigation, the tech is now waiting on Ford Engineering. The service advisor says that it's possible the entire HVB pack will need to be replaced.

I'm thankful that my dealer has had good customer service so far and I'm in a rental car. But my wife and I are disappointed.

Before this, I had a 1st year Chevy Bolt and had no issues for four years. So maybe this car is too fancy and the computer systems more complex than Ford can handle right now.

 

[nfoxtrot]

I have one Mach-E and the same problem with the "Stop Safely Now" message. Towed it to the dealership. They reprogrammed the car, charged up the 12v, and things seemed to be fine.

A week later, it happened again. It got towed back to the dealership and is sitting there now. After some investigation, the tech is now waiting on Ford Engineering. The service advisor says that it's possible the entire HVB pack will need to be replaced.

I'm thankful that my dealer has had good customer service so far and I'm in a rental car. But my wife and I are disappointed.

Before this, I had a 1st year Chevy Bolt and had no issues for four years. So maybe this car is too fancy and the computer systems more complex than Ford can handle right now.

Is there any way too know if it'll happen again after charge? Maybe a battery control module will have to be replaced as well.

 

[voxel]

I agree.

My experience with EVs (have owned 3) has convinced me that I wouldn't switch to an all-EV household. I really don't want this to sound like a "blame the victim" response. I think you should expect better service than you've gotten, even in the first model year. What stinks is that EVs should be simpler and more reliable than ICE vehicles, but current manufacturers (and their dealer/service networks) are not able to deliver on that promise.

Yeah in theory EVs should be more reliable but we are seeing electrical failures because there are now numerous NEW failure points.

I don't know if you are following Andy / Ross-Tech's electrical failure thread on ID.4 forums but they found a 1-way diode that failed which nuked "battery module, positive contactor, negative contactor, but also the complete rear drive unit. "

A repair like that out of warranty would cost $10K-20K I suspect.

Separately, I'm not convinced current 2021/2022 EVs won't have a Kona/Bolt like recall in the future. I'm not a fan of the NMC li-ion pouch cells. I'm a strong proponent of moving towards LFP batteries for everything except performance cars.

 

[dtbaker61]

“Please pullover safely”

.... has there been any definitive cause identified for this problem with 'Apollo'?
and/or a fix ?

 

[nfoxtrot]

.... has there been any definitive cause identified for this problem with 'Apollo'?
and/or a fix ?

Apollo is sitting in a tow lot approximately 2 hours from the dealer since they can't drop the car off if the service department is closed so it will be dropped off tomorrow morning. In the mean time I will be taking the loaner given for Boo to get to work since I won't have one today. There's even a chance I won't get one from Ford of Kirkland considering this rental was their last one. So fingers crossed!

 

[DrSteveBrule]

Yeah in theory EVs should be more reliable but we are seeing electrical failures because there are now numerous NEW failure points.

I don't know if you are following Andy / Ross-Tech's electrical failure thread on ID.4 forums but they found a 1-way diode that failed which nuked "battery module, positive contactor, negative contactor, but also the complete rear drive unit. "

A repair like that out of warranty would cost $10K-20K I suspect.

Separately, I'm not convinced current 2021/2022 EVs won't have a Kona/Bolt like recall in the future. I'm not a fan of the NMC li-ion pouch cells. I'm a strong proponent of moving towards LFP batteries for everything except performance cars.

Have not been following that thread. Interesting.

LFP batteries are worse in the cold and less power dense. I would not own an LFP Model 3 where I live. The fast charging is not in the cold.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

Apollo is sitting in a tow lot approximately 2 hours from the dealer since they can't drop the car off if the service department is closed so it will be dropped off tomorrow morning. In the mean time I will be taking the loaner given for Boo to get to work since I won't have one today. There's even a chance I won't get one from Ford of Kirkland considering this rental was their last one. So fingers crossed!

 

[nfoxtrot]

Lmao I'm the owner of Apollo and the spouse of @Theamurican

 

[deadduck]

Ouch. You got burned twice.

Dealers are no help either most of the time. It’s always the same answers “we’ll find out by calling the 1800 number”, “it’s a new vehicle so it comes with a learning curve” , “we’re too busy we’ll take a look at it a month from now” then back to the first answer.

If I were you, I would place an order with Tesla, when they arrive i would dump both asap. I say Tesla because all the other options currently, well suck. There’s only one comparable model to the mme and it’s the model y.

Good luck.

Just took a look at Tesla. Model Y Performance available in February, If you get the 20" wheels and the right color they estimate July for a non-performance, everything else is November.

The Ioniq 5 is theoretically any day to see some. The EV6 is January, theoretically. The Q4 etron, who knows. ID.4 all say mid 2022.

At least my MME is a theoretical April / May.

 

[phil]

Lmao I'm the owner of Apollo and the spouse of @Theamurican

Both of you named 'Nick'. No doubt that avoids a lot of confusion.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

Both of you named 'Nick'. No doubt that avoids a lot of confusion.

 

[voxel]

Have not been following that thread. Interesting.

LFP batteries are worse in the cold and less power dense. I would not own an LFP Model 3 where I live. The fast charging is not in the cold.

Yeah, LFPs are not recommended for cold climates. The lower density (extra weight really) is less of a problem because charging to 100% instead of 80% is the recommended usage. What do you prefer 80% of 100kWh or 100% of 80kWh?

Also, they last up to 4x full-charge cycles and don't burst into flames as quickly as NMC cells. More importantly, you don't need to invade an African country to source the cobalt.

As for the OP, I HOPE they find the problem. An unresolved issue just means this problem will flare up again and/or Ford EV technicians are not as competent as we imagine.

I suggest submitting a safety report to NHTSA also:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem

 

[MellowJohnny]

As to the tow… that’s why I never use a third party. Always choose your own service. A lot easier to deal with someone when you’re both familiar with the area then someone sitting in a call center somewhere.

I wouldn’t hesitate for a minute to lemon law Boo. If it’s eligible in your state, by all means, do it.

Totally agree with that - my sister-in-law had the tranny in her 3-Series BMW self-destruct (luckily 2 mins from our house). She contacted BMW Roadside but after waiting 45 mins for a callback she called CAA (AAA in Canada) instead. BMW *never* called back. CAA was still an hour wait, but they came.

 

[voxel]

The Ioniq 5 is theoretically any day to see some. The EV6 is January, theoretically. The Q4 etron, who knows. ID.4 all say mid 2022.

At least my MME is a theoretical April / May.

Selling a MME (which seems to have fewer problems than other non-Tesla EVs) for another first gen car like an EV6 (which I REALLY want) is like stepping out of an elevator into a land mine.

EV6 owners are "bricking" (temporarily) because you have to turn off the car before DC charging as per manual.

https://www.kiaevforums.com/threads/ev6-bricking-zombie-issue.318/

And folks complain about the 5 second issue on the GTPE... well Ioniq + EV6 have some unresolved battery thermaling issues.

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