PBP for Mach-E

[mr_raider]

There is no ICE version of the MME. You’ve gotta find a small to midsize crossover SUV with at least somewhat comparable bells and whistles. What would that be? That’s not a rhetorical question - I’m not much of a car guy so I’d be curious to know what others think would be the most comparable ICE vehicle to the MME. Obviously there’s a lot of tech here that you’re not gonna find anywhere else, but what gets closest? And don’t say Tesla because the MME already soundly beats the Y on price thanks currently to the tax credit.

I guess it's a bit smaller than the wife's Honda Cr-V?

But there aren't many sub 6 second CUVs on the market unless you are willing to go to BMW or MB. The closest comparison would maybe be a Mazda Cx-5 with turbo engine.

Sponsored

 

[highland58]

The last two ICE cars I owned were Subarus, a 2003 Forester and a 2010 Outback. They were fun to drive, handled well (after I replaced the sway bar to get rid of the understeer), stuck to the road like glue (lots of wet roads in the NW), and they had a good cargo capacity with the hatchback and fold down seats. What both had in common were AWD SUV with hatchback.

When I decided to look at EVs, there were not a lot of choices yet. I wanted a car that had similar characteristics as my Subarus - AWD, SUV hatchback, and so on. There were few options, Tesla had AWD but no SUV and too small (MY was not out yet). I looked at a couple of cars, I was most interested in the Bolt, but I had an attack of range anxiety and bought a Volt instead. It was fun to drive, but too small and felt cheap. I only had that for a short time and traded it in on the Clarity, which is larger and more comfortable, but still no AWD or hatchback, and similar range to the Volt. I do mostly drive local, so about 90% electric.

Two years later I started looking again at getting a BEV AWD SUV but by then there was no way I would consider Tesla. I have owned a number of Fords in the past (still have an F250). When I saw the Mach-E, it was all of what I was looking for and a Mustang on top of that. The fact that it is not a traditional Mustang does not matter to me, it is exciting, an AWD SUV hatchback, I reserved one within hours of becoming aware of it. It's not an investment, it is about checking all of the boxes in what I want in a car.

I could drive my Clarity for another 10 years, but it is only a transition car while I was waiting for better EV choices. I've changed the oil 3 times and now it wants another oil change plus replace the brake fluid . I bought a used 2016 LEAF a couple of years ago for my wife to drive, we have done essentially zero maintenance on it, I just have replaced the halogen headlight bulbs with LED bulbs, and new wiper blades.

 

[highland58]

My reasons for wanting to "stick it to the oil companies" is about them knowing that their product was causing destructive climate change for many years and hiding it in the name of $$$$.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

unless you care about insurance cost or teenager-appropriateness. "valuable" is not fixed in this situation.

I get that you're saying acceleration matters. but not always in the same way for everyone.

 

[Maric]

My reasons for wanting to "stick it to the oil companies" is about them knowing that their product was causing destructive climate change for many years and hiding it in the name of $$$$.

This. It also kills me that big oil reaps billions in profits while taking in billions in subsidies.

 

[BadgerGreg]

Nice to see someone else is honest with numbers.

One big issue I see is that (well, coming from a Tesla forum so take that for what it is) EV owners also tend to be the types that would take stealership servicing hook, line and sinker. That is, they were indeed paying through the nose for "maintenance", but I'd argue that they were really being taken. Stories of paying a dealer $150 for an oil change (that you can do for like $20 with very good parts), or those omnibus services that include a lot of spurious things like "check this...." "inspect that...." "change blinker fluid" and maybe an oil change or tire rotation but charge like $1k. I've owned many cars and never done any of that, and honestly I have yet to have a car that I would consider to have had extraneous repairs - brakes, oil, filters, plugs, etc are all somewhat expected, all DIY, and none particularly expensive.

I've had plenty of good experience with dealership maintenance (while under warranty) and independent shops (usually when my cars get to higher mileage). Of course, I'm not saying anything about Tesla shops, as I don't know anything about them. Even after spending years going to BMW dealerships, which many might assume are good at separating customers from their cash, I feel they are honest and do good work. Provided that you stick with the same dealership (especially the one where you buy your car), they value your business and want you coming back so they don't rip you off. When you follow that program, your maintenance costs are (in the long run) very predictable.

 

[BadgerGreg]

8 cents a mile, so over 100k miles, $8000? That's absurd. My last car over 200k I probably didn't spend half of that, even including services that an EV would also have (like tires). This makes me wonder what your point of reference is - do you use the dealer's service schedule like gospel and take it there for service? Even if you did I can't see you spending $8,000 in 100k on "service".

Realistically what are the major things you'd go through in 100k? Couple-3 sets of tires, probably 10 oil changes - maybe the plugs are due - perhaps a coolant F&F - what else? Air filters? I can't see how all that adds up to $8000 (and the EV will need tires, too, and it also has a coolant system)

Actually, 7-8 cents a mile is pretty accurate for ICE vehicle maintenance; especially when you're beyond warranty. If you went 200K miles and spent $4,000, you were extremely lucky. Most cars that go that far have a whole load of expensive items that pop up; transmission repairs, shocks, exhaust, timing belt, pumps, electrical issues, etc. Most auto budget planning guides tell you to prepare for at least 6-7 cents a mile for maintenance, and a bit higher for luxury vehicles.

 

[Ravensfan1996]

I’m in Pa and gas costs 2.79 currently, and my electric cost is like .11 kwh. I’m not really getting this car to save money (its costs $55k!) I love the look and the tech, and it will do everything i need. A little sporty when i want, large enough to haul things when i need to. Never getting gas again on my way home from work, priceless.

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

One big issue I see is that (well, coming from a Tesla forum so take that for what it is) EV owners also tend to be the types that would take stealership servicing hook, line and sinker. That is, they were indeed paying through the nose for "maintenance", but I'd argue that they were really being taken. Stories of paying a dealer $150 for an oil change (that you can do for like $20 with very good parts), or those omnibus services that include a lot of spurious things like "check this...." "inspect that...." "change blinker fluid" and maybe an oil change or tire rotation but charge like $1k. I've owned many cars and never done any of that, and honestly I have yet to have a car that I would consider to have had extraneous repairs - brakes, oil, filters, plugs, etc are all somewhat expected, all DIY, and none particularly expensive.

Good for you, doing your own maintenance. I used to, then decided that life is too short to be climbing under vehicles.

But, you know, I do not know a single female that knows how to change her own oil, never mind doing a brake job.

So for the major part of our population (women outnumber men), not having to go to a dealer for routine ICE maintenance will be a big deal, won't it?

 

[dbsb3233]

Yeah, that's the way I've always looked at it too. It's not like the whole world doesn't know that burning fossil fuels creates pollution. Gasoline isn't like a frozen dinner or something that might have some mystery ingredient in it that poisons people, which is the fault of that particular manufacturer. Gasoline is gasoline, no matter who extracts the oil and refines it into gasoline. And of course every producer of anything is going to defend and push their products. It's a perfectly legal product.

Fossil fuels have been a necessary product for modern industrial society for a century and a half. It's not like we could have just up and stopped using them. Batteries were still a long way from enabling a viable BEV, until just the last few years.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

excellent strawman there. But I'll play.

For me personally, yes, a 10,000 sq. ft. home would be worth less - I'd be paying all that money for space I don't use but need to maintain, so the value to me would be substantially lower. So you're completely making my point here while attempting to dispute it.

Fundamentally, you're confusing "value" and "price". By basic definition, you're incorrect:

Noun definitions one and two both could apply here depending on approach, and both of those are based on personal judgement ultimately. I have little regard for a 10,000 sq. ft. home if it's a single person residence (what a waste of resources!) and it wouldn't at all be important to me in life to have such a thing.

Now if you want to argue that for some people, acceleration is the only thing that matters, and those people would pay more and place more value based on that, that's fine. But to argue that as a universal fact is silly. I directly told you why it was silly. Whether you want to agree with that reality is another matter.

 

[Fat Mach]

In my neck of the woods a 10k foot home sells all day for $5M. A 1200 foot home sells for $1M. Something is worth what someone will pay for it.

Sponsored