Pines Ford refusing to honor X-plan

[jparduhn70]

This is why I’m thankful to be in Metro Detroit. Every dealer in this region does virtually 100% of their business on A, Z, and X Plans, as everyone here is either a friend or family member of a Ford employee. When you order a car here, it’s just assumed that one of these prices will apply. That also makes me wonder how these dealers make money; I think they make it up in maintenance, given the terrible state of our roads

I bought mine outside Detroit, and they weren't willing to even discuss X-Plan, even though their listing for my car said they'd do A-Plan. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, they went as far as to deny the incentive was even available on the MME. I showed them they were wrong, but I wasn't willing to argue the point as long as they didn't add ADM for it, because in the grand scheme, it wasn't saving me thousands of dollars and had only a negligible effect on the monthly payment. I do, however, understand everyone can have different feelings about it and the level of importance about getting that additional savings.

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[Accord07]

This may be harsh, but this is not really shenanigans. This sounds like excuses and refusal to take accountability for one's own actions. She agreed to the price online and placed the order. Is you placed an order, then you know that you see the total dealer selling price before entering any credit card info. Realizing that you ordered a $60k product without a) reading the large print break cost breakdown or b) without shopping around at few dealerships isn't an excuse to blame a dealership for their unwillingness to change the terms of the agreement. And Xplan terms also require upfront notification.

I think you are being a bit harsh on OP. Yes the $2,000 dealer markup was shown on the ordering page and included in the Dealer Selling Price, but the footnote also indicates AXZD pricing is treated just as other incentives and applied only when the purchase occurs and taxes and fees are paid, not upfront at the time of placing an order. To put it another way, although every Mach-E order is a "special order", for all other vehicles which a dealer orders for its inventory there is no way that either the dealer or Ford would have known in advance if a particular vehicle would be sold to a customer eligible for the discount. But we can agree that as buyers we need to ask about X-Plan and whether the deposit is refundable before submitting an order. I am on the other extreme and often the amount of time I spend on researching is disproportional to the value of the purchase. Before buying our current house, I read through the builder's sales contract as well as the 300+ pages of HOA bylaws so I knew every idiosyncrasy among the myriad of rules, while a few neighbors found out the hard way.

OP posted on this forum last summer, she felt uneasy back then because the dealer was non-communicative, indicative of future problems. So while she could have done more to protect her interest early on instead of being carried away by the euphoria of buying a great car (and that she would end up at the back of the line and likely wouldn't be able to get a First Edition by starting over), she acted in good faith and thought the dealer would honor the verbal agreement regarding X-Plan pricing. Most of the reduction in revenue by honoring the discount is borne by Ford anyway.

 

[ARK]

This may be harsh, but this is not really shenanigans. This sounds like excuses and refusal to take accountability for one's own actions. She agreed to the price online and placed the order. Is you placed an order, then you know that you see the total dealer selling price before entering any credit card info. Realizing that you ordered a $60k product without a) reading the large print break cost breakdown or b) without shopping around at few dealerships isn't an excuse to blame a dealership for their unwillingness to change the terms of the agreement. And Xplan terms also require upfront notification.

While I think this is technically correct, this whole episode with this unfortunate buyer shows why the dealer system needs reform and Tesla’s pricing model is better. People hate, hate, hate the idea that they are overpaying for something compared to other people, even if it might objectively still not be a bad deal overall.

For example, all of us with the pre-price drop orders had committed to a higher price for our cars. For those who ordered a Premium, this was to the tune of $3,000. Yet suppose there was no price drop, instead the price of the Mach-E Premium was $5,000 lower from the get-go but most, though not all, dealers were charging $1,000 in ADM.

Most Premium buyers would still be better off than today to the tune of $1,000 but there would be deep dissatisfaction at the idea of paying a markup and the pitchforks would be out because not all people were paying for that mark up. It’s just the way people think, part of all of our psychology to a greater or lesser extent for any given individual.

Tesla’s great innovation is that they mask these differences in what customers pay. They won’t give you a break on price, but they can throw in some free supercharging, better wheels, ‘free’ color upgrades and the like if you are persistent or go at the right time (e.g., end of quarter). Net effect is people feel better about parting with their money - in that way it’s a win for both the company and the consumer, even if the consumer isn’t necessarily getting a good deal, they feel better about it.

 

[shutterbug]

Tesla’s great innovation is...

Tesla's great innovation is that they pretty much eliminated quality control and warranty service. Oh and fighting right to repair tooth and nail.

 

[zhackwyatt]

To bring the thread back on topic...

Points to be made:
1) OP says dealer accepts X-Plan on other vehicles.
2) Dealer is not accepting X-Plan on MME.

My understanding was a dealer can't cherry-pick X-Plan, they either accept it or not. So I would definitely contact Ford's X-plan folks. If nothing else than to verify that understanding. They should also know whether that dealer has used X-plan on other vehicles.

 

[Lizzyfitz]

To bring the thread back on topic...

Points to be made:
1) OP says dealer accepts X-Plan on other vehicles.
2) Dealer is not accepting X-Plan on MME.

My understanding was a dealer can't cherry-pick X-Plan, they either accept it or not. So I would definitely contact Ford's X-plan folks. If nothing else than to verify that understanding. They should also know whether that dealer has used X-plan on other vehicles.

Thanks. I’ve even used x-plan myself at this dealer. I will contact Ford on Monday.

 

[engnrng]

Thanks. I’ve even used x-plan myself at this dealer. I will contact Ford on Monday.

You said they told you over the phone that they had the X Plan pricing contract prepared and for you to come in. That is a verbal contract. Did you ever see the paperwork?

 

[balthisar]

That also makes me wonder how these dealers make money; I think they make it up in maintenance, given the terrible state of our roads

Ford pays the difference between sale price and MSRP to the dealer. The dealers don't lose anything, unless you count ADM or inflated doc fees (which are also contractually limited).

My understanding was a dealer can't cherry-pick X-Plan, they either accept it or not.

I'm not sure about X-Plan, but they can definitely cherry-pick A plan. That's how I ended up with a B-Plan Continental instead of an A-Plan Marauder back in the day.

 

[Rockcity313]

I agree - but that isn't stated on the Ford.com order site. There's no disclaimer about A/X/Z/D Plan "Please consult your dealer to ensure they will accept the plan price that is different than what you see here" etc. etc. on the site.

I ordered without consulting my dealer and fully expect my plan pricing to be honored. There was no indication on Ford.com that consulting your dealer was necessary to get plan pricing on Mach-E, customers shouldn't have to lurk on the forums to buy a car. We'll see what happens when my FE gets here.

The online process created this trap because of its design.

Reread terms and conditions after logging into the the actual xplan website using your participant code. You may be enlightened.

 

[BlueMach]

Reread terms and conditions after logging into the the actual xplan website using your participant code. You may be enlightened.

I'm speaking of the Ford.com ordering website. There was (and remains) no way to indicate your plan pricing when the order is submitted to the dealer.

 

[Mirak]

Dealers don’t have to participate in xplan. If they do choose to participate, I don’t think they are permitted to pick and choose which vehicles are eligible - I think only Ford sets those exclusions.

It is the responsibility of the customer to (1) verify no dealer markup, which is displayed on the order page, and (2) verify that the dealer will accept x-plan prior to ordering.

For those placing new orders, this is all very simple. If the dealer has a markup or won’t take x-plan, order from a different dealer.

But I am unclear on how the reservation system worked. Did the reservation lock you in with a particular dealer or could you have converted that reservation to an order with any dealer you like? If the latter, everything I said above applies. If the former, then I guess it was necessary to verify all this prior to reserving.

Bottom line: you can’t be naive dealing with dealers. Everything needs to be confirmed in advance in writing.

 

[Rocky29670]

Isn't the difference really only like $845 after you have to pay the $275 fee? It's at $50k+ car. If it's what you want are you really going to walk away over that? Yes it sucks, and sure you'd like for it to be cheaper. But if it's truly what you want are you going to walk away over that amount of money? If you are, maybe you didn't really want it that bad in the first place.

Also if you don't get your deposit back, then you're literally giving away less money than the difference, unless my math is all wrong. It's 2% off after you pay $275 fee correct? It's your money and your decision, you gotta do what you feel is right. I'd take the car and bad mouth them to everyone who would listen and make sure nobody I knew ever got a car from them again.

 

[Accord07]

Isn't the difference really only like $845 after you have to pay the $275 fee? It's at $50k+ car. If it's what you want are you really going to walk away over that? Yes it sucks, and sure you'd like for it to be cheaper. But if it's truly what you want are you going to walk away over that amount of money? If you are, maybe you didn't really want it that bad in the first place.

Also if you don't get your deposit back, then you're literally giving away less money than the difference, unless my math is all wrong. It's 2% off after you pay $275 fee correct? It's your money and your decision, you gotta do what you feel is right. I'd take the car and bad mouth them to everyone who would listen and make sure nobody I knew ever got a car from them again.

There is much more than some $800 involved. Dealer wants $2K above MSRP, and Florida has the highest dealer "documentation fee" in the country (it is supposedly capped under X-Plan), the difference is north of $3,000.

 

[Rocky29670]

There is much more than some $800 involved. Dealer wants $2K above MSRP, and Florida has the highest dealer "documentation fee" in the country (it is supposedly capped under X-Plan), the difference is north of $3,000.

The ADM is a separate issue to me, that was something that the buyer didn't get the dealer to take off before going forward with the process. I don't know anything about the documentation fee and how that is impacted by x plan so I'll defer to you.

 

[mamejunkie]

The ADM is a separate issue to me, that was something that the buyer didn't get the dealer to take off before going forward with the process. I don't know anything about the documentation fee and how that is impacted by x plan so I'll defer to you.

It's not a separate issue. Your comment 3 post above said it's only $845, why argue over such amount. But the bottom line is more like $2845 difference.

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