Plug & Charge Fail and the 80% Cliff is Real

[RedStormREHS]

The big, big question of the day is... Why aren't major, membership-only stores (e.g., Costco) with huge gasoline/diesel stations throughout the country offering discounted (or any) DCFC yet for EVs? Costco has many, many shoppers w/EVs that spend about 60+ min inside. Where's the juice, man?

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[ChasingCoral]

So I called and spoke to rep from Electrify America. I asked specifically if the FordPass app gave us access to the 31 cents per Kwh rate or the 43 cents per kwh rate, and also some f/u questions. So here is what I learned:

1. We all know you get the 250 kwh of free charge time.

2. After that is used up, FordPass/MME users are billed at the 43 cents kwh rate unless you have the pass plus membership

3. Something new I learned and she was unsure about is that we might have to use the EA app after the 250 kwh are used up. She stated in the past when they've done something similar to this, the user needs to switch to the EA app after the free hours are used up. I asked if that would be the same considering FordPass has a wallet option to store payment and she said she did not know. I asked her to please refer this to their feedback team as there are literally thousands of MME owners curious about his question and there hasn't been a lot of information coming from either Ford or EA.

4. If you want the lower rate of 31 cent kwh, sign up for the EA pass plus membership.

In summary, the FordPass app merely grants access and plug and charge for EA. However it might only do that for the 250 kwh provided by Ford, at which point we might have to use the EA app as this is what has happened in the past. I asked for clarification on this last part and hopefully we will know something in the near future. Obviously all of this is subject to change but this is what the EA rep on their customer service number told me.

Thanks for reaching out!

i wonder how reliable information is from EA reps on the phone? Hopefully you got the right information.

 

[wareagle1440]

Thanks for reaching out!

i wonder how reliable information is from EA reps on the phone? Hopefully you got the right information.

Fair point. I figure it is better than what we were speculating about though. And now it is on their radar and maybe they will update information...maybe.

 

[Dan G]

I haven't found that many at the lower end of the spectrum to have chargers but I haven't looked that closely. On Plugshare, it's my go-to site for finding chargers, but I've found it misses hotels/motels from time to time. For example, I know there are a couple of hotels/motels in Cambria which have chargers because I've stayed there, but they don't show up on the Plugshare charging map.

There's not as many chargers as I would like. But don't forget about the granny charger either. 3-5 miles an hour is 30-50 miles overnight. Might be enough to get you somewhere. Or not. Depends on your situation.

And Plugshare is peer sourced! If you know of a charger that isn't on it, add it so other people know if it!

 

[wareagle1440]

The big, big question of the day is... Why aren't major, membership-only stores (e.g., Costco) with huge gasoline/diesel stations throughout the country offering discounted (or any) DCFC yet for EVs? Costco has many, many shoppers w/EVs that spend about 60+ min inside. Where's the juice, man?

probably because there are only about 558 costco stores compared to the approximate 4,700 Walmarts in the US. It probably has more to do with companies like EA reaching out to walmart and not costco. Also not everyone has a membership which doesn't help if you have an hour to kill charging and you can't go in the store (i.e. this guy). But i do wonder why a smaller company like greenlots, who is owned by Shell, hasn't done that yet. Easier way to get DCFS into major markets.

 

[ChasingCoral]

probably because there are only about 558 costco stores compared to the approximate 4,700 Walmarts in the US. It probably has more to do with companies like EA reaching out to walmart and not costco. Also not everyone has a membership which doesn't help if you have an hour to kill charging and you can't go in the store (i.e. this guy). But i do wonder why a smaller company like greenlots, who is owned by Shell, hasn't done that yet. Easier way to get DCFS into major markets.

COSTCO sells L2 chargers now. They could put a couple on the side of the building so folks could try them — like the sample trays inside

 

[timbop]

Thanks for reaching out!

i wonder how reliable information is from EA reps on the phone? Hopefully you got the right information.

I have a feeling that the EA rep isn't fully versed in the Fordpass/EA integration - which is what I've been concerned about for a year. I say that because the whole point of Fordpass (and EVERYTHING Ford has said about it) is to not need a separate EA account. That would also imply not needing to use the EA app.

Not to be too much of a jerk or too much of a pessimist, but I have a feeling the first 6-12 months of Fordpass usage is going to be difficult. If you have to call EA support they are very unlikely to be versed in FordPass integration, and it is very unclear how all of this is going to work. I tried asking these kinds of questions during the 4 webinars last summer, but the moderator kept picking softball questions whose answers could be found elsewhere - we didn't really need Ron Heiser to recite the horsepower of the rear motors.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I have a feeling that the EA rep isn't fully versed in the Fordpass/EA integration - which is what I've been concerned about for a year. I say that because the whole point of Fordpass (and EVERYTHING Ford has said about it) is to not need a separate EA account. That would also imply not needing to use the EA app.

Not to be too much of a jerk or too much of a pessimist, but I have a feeling the first 6-12 months of Fordpass usage is going to be difficult. If you have to call EA support they are very unlikely to be versed in FordPass integration, and it is very unclear how all of this is going to work. I tried asking these kinds of questions during the 4 webinars last summer, but the moderator kept picking softball questions whose answers could be found elsewhere - we didn't really need Ron Heiser to recite the horsepower of the rear motors.

You don’t need a separate EA account unless you want to pay 25% less per kWh.

 

[DBC]

So I called and spoke to rep from Electrify America. I asked specifically if the FordPass app gave us access to the 31 cents per Kwh rate or the 43 cents per kwh rate, and also some f/u questions. So here is what I learned:

/Very nice. Thanks for taking the time to find out and then sharing.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

You don’t need a separate EA account unless you want to pay 25% less per kWh.

But that's precisely the reason. If you want 60 kW then that's $25.80 @ 0.43 vs. $18.60 @ 0.31 ... that works out to $7.20 less.

The Pass+ Membership costs $4/month ... so even if you only charged once that month it would still be worthwhile. There doesn't seem to be any minimum term ... looks like you can cancel at any time.

 

[DBC]

I have a feeling that the EA rep isn't fully versed in the Fordpass/EA integration - which is what I've been concerned about for a year. I say that because the whole point of Fordpass (and EVERYTHING Ford has said about it) is to not need a separate EA account. That would also imply not needing to use the EA app.

Not to be too much of a jerk or too much of a pessimist, but I have a feeling the first 6-12 months of Fordpass usage is going to be difficult.

I agree that this has been the whole point of Ford's effort so I suspect that this is the intention. The rep did say that "in the past" it worked differently but both things can be true.

On being a pessimist, worst case is you are happily surprised.

 

[dbsb3233]

The pass-through drivers will mostly be using DCFC. You can apply a tax there.

But then you double-hit any locals that live in the state and DCFC there. Even though it seems like a bad idea to me, there will be some dedicated souls that will buy a BEV when they don't have home/work L2. And use DCFC most of the time. They'll cry foul.

Granted, every tax scheme is going to have some holes in it, and unfairness.

 

[DBC]

But that's precisely the reason. If you want 60 kW then that's $25.80 @ 0.43 vs. $18.60 @ 0.31 ... that works out to $7.20 less.

$.12/kWh is about $.04/mile. So even if you DC charged at EA stations when driving 2000 miles the difference would be $80. Subtract the $48 membership fee and the difference is $32/year.

Personally I'd rather pay $32/year and avoid the hassle of a separate membership. Life is short.

 

[dbsb3233]

But that's precisely the reason. If you want 60 kW then that's $25.80 @ 0.43 vs. $18.60 @ 0.31 ... that works out to $7.20 less.

The Pass+ Membership costs $4/month ... so even if you only charged once that month it would still be worthwhile. There doesn't seem to be any minimum term ... looks like you can cancel at any time.

Yep. And on a road trip of any substantial length, most people will probably use EA more than once.

At $0.12/kWh difference in price, the break-even point on the $4 is a mere 33 kWh (~100 miles).

 

[DBC]

Granted, every tax scheme is going to have some holes in it, and unfairness.

I don't know how it works everywhere but where I am you already pay taxes on the electricity. If you move from buying gasoline to buying electricity you're still paying taxes, just more or one tax and less of another tax. Seems like the state needs to straighten this out on its end and apportion the taxes.

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