Range and Efficiency changes with different temperatures via Tesla forum:

Yoliber

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Man you're lucky. I'm in SoCal so I should get the full range. I even have a light foot and rarely ever touch the brake pedal and I'm getting 216 real world miles out of the 250 rated range.

I looked on the tesla forums and it does seem like people do average 220-230 wh/mi which is better than what I get (255 wh/mi). However, model Y owners are getting 280-340 wh/mi. Kind of crazy high.

Does anyone else think that Ford might be using a different final gear ratio for highway efficiency? It would make sense that they are sacrificing low end for highway cruising speed. It would be cool if the front and rear motors are geared differently so Ford can switch them for maximum range. It'll be like the Taycan 2 speed.
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Does anyone else think that Ford might be using a different final gear ratio for highway efficiency? It would make sense that they are sacrificing low end for highway cruising speed. It would be cool if the front and rear motors are geared differently so Ford can switch them for maximum range. It'll be like the Taycan 2 speed.
Each motor/differential is a fixed gear ratio, but yes, with AWD the front is geared different than the rear. Hopefully the computer shifts more of the power to the front during high speed cruising.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Range and Efficiency changes with different temperatures via Tesla forum: 1592949257517-
 

Yoliber

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Each motor/differential is a fixed gear ratio, but yes, with AWD the front is geared different than the rear. Hopefully the computer shifts more of the power to the front during high speed cruising.
Thanks for the info. Isn't a higher final drive better for low speeds and not high speeds?

Tesla's drive ratios...
Model 3 - 9.00f / 9.00r
Model Y - 9.00f / 9.00r
Model S - 9.34f / 9.71r

so it looks like the rear motor between the Mach-E and Model 3/Y are geared the same. Mach-E front motor is geared differently, but is a PMM instead of Induction.
 

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Thanks for the info. Isn't a higher final drive better for low speeds and not high speeds?

Tesla's drive ratios...
Model 3 - 9.00f / 9.00r
Model Y - 9.00f / 9.00r
Model S - 9.34f / 9.71r

so it looks like the rear motor between the Mach-E and Model 3/Y are geared the same. Mach-E front motor is geared differently, but is a PMM instead of Induction.
You're probably right. I'm not well-practiced in gear ratios. I was thinking higher gear as in like 4th gear vs 3rd, but I guess it's the opposite of that, that a higher gear = lower ratio?

Meaning the front motor on the MME would provide more of an acceleration boost, while the rear better for cruising efficiency?

That's the opposite of what I would think would make more sense trying to combat efficiency loss at high speed. And since that translates to range, I'd think they'd favor that more than acceleration. (If I'm understanding it all correctly from my novice viewpoint.)
 

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You're probably right. I'm not well-practiced in gear ratios. I was thinking higher gear as in like 4th gear vs 3rd, but I guess it's the opposite of that, that a higher gear = lower ratio?

Meaning the front motor on the MME would provide more of an acceleration boost, while the rear better for cruising efficiency?

That's the opposite of what I would think would make more sense trying to combat efficiency loss at high speed. And since that translates to range, I'd think they'd favor that more than acceleration. (If I'm understanding it all correctly from my novice viewpoint.)
haha i think easiest way to imagine it is like 9 to 1. motor spins 9 times to spin the wheels once. if it's 1 to 1 the motor spins the same speed as the wheels which is very very fast. Think of it as a bicycle, the largest gear in the back is for lowest speed.

From what I recall, the front motor for the Mach-E is smaller than the rear motor, therefore the larger final drive will help compensate it's size. But it'll top out faster. So it looks like it's really only for accelerating or for added traction.

Pretty disappointing. I was hoping for more range from the awd. It was previously targetted for 280 miles but now it's 270 miles. This makes the decision between RWD and AWD more difficult.
 


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I was hoping for more range from the awd. It was previously targetted for 280 miles but now it's 270 miles. This makes the decision between RWD and AWD more difficult.
Range estimate has always been 270 miles for ER AWD (and I think 250 or 235 for GT or GT Performance).

210 miles for SR AWD.
 

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Pretty disappointing. I was hoping for more range from the awd. It was previously targetted for 280 miles but now it's 270 miles. This makes the decision between RWD and AWD more difficult.
It does seem like a missed opportunity, although there must be drawbacks. Still, it sounds like the perfect way to partially make up for the lack of a transmission. Road trip (high speed cruising) range is a pretty big limiting factor for BEVs (since charging takes so long). Drop that front motor gear ratio down from 10.0 to 7.0 and gain an extra 40 miles of range or something.

Oh well, I'm sure it's not that simple.
 
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I'm not an engineer or auto expert: This is what I found:
Permanent Magnetic Motor Efficiency
As the name implies, an EV permanent magnet motor uses permanent magnetics on the rotor (see the graphic below). The alternating current applied to the stator results in rotation of the rotor. Because the magnets are permanently magnetized, the rotor can run synchronously to the switching AC current. The slippage necessary in induction motors is eliminated, improving your heat efficiency.

The inherent efficiency of a permanent magnet motor is higher than an induction motor. Both motors use a three-phase design through fully optimized performance. Induction motors, however, were designed to work primarily at 60 Hz. As you increase the frequency, eddy current losses in induction motors will be far greater than in permanent magnet motors using powder metal technology.

Regardless of how you bend or shape an induction motor, a well-designed, synchronous permanent magnet motor will offer increased range, better performance, and so on.

link: https://www.horizontechnology.biz/blog/induction-vs-permanent-magnet-motor-efficiency-auto-electrification#:~:text=The inherent efficiency of a permanent magnet motor,were designed to work primarily at 60 Hz.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Range and Efficiency changes with different temperatures via Tesla forum: Induction Vs- Permanent Magnet Motor Efficiency Auto Electrification - component comparison-1

Tesla uses an induction motor, other companies use permanent. Interesting.
 

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haha i think easiest way to imagine it is like 9 to 1. motor spins 9 times to spin the wheels once. if it's 1 to 1 the motor spins the same speed as the wheels which is very very fast. Think of it as a bicycle, the largest gear in the back is for lowest speed.

From what I recall, the front motor for the Mach-E is smaller than the rear motor, therefore the larger final drive will help compensate it's size. But it'll top out faster. So it looks like it's really only for accelerating or for added traction.

Pretty disappointing. I was hoping for more range from the awd. It was previously targetted for 280 miles but now it's 270 miles. This makes the decision between RWD and AWD more difficult.
Agree for the same rpm the larger rear gear will not turn the wheel as many times. However, not lowest speed but the easiest on the motor (your legs and the front crank). The speed is dependent on motor rpm (how fast those legs pump). One can beat someone who is in a lower gear if they pedal faster and it will be easier for them to pedal. The balance is to pick the gear that turns the wheel as many times as it can with the least energy expended by the peddler (easiest on the motor). Appears that is close to the 9th gear for a bev.

Has certified EPA been released or still estimated? Heard rumor of modest increases. If the 10 miles is make or break you may want to hold for actual EPA results.
 
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dbsb3233

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Has certified EPA been released or still estimated?
Still just "targeted" EPA, nothing official yet. Common expectation is a modest increase (maybe 3-5% ballpark) in the official numbers.
 

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270 x 1.05 = 284 and he does not need to be pretty disappointed anymore :)
Hahhaa I actually haven't reserved because I'm waiting for more details and reviews. I'm also still unsure whether or not I want the ER AWD or ER RWD. It switches everyday, but a 5% increase will make me happier either way :).
 

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Chances for a future OTA range increase seems pretty good too. The 11% battery reserve they built in to protect the battery seems ripe for a future reduction if data collection shows battery health doing well. Expanding the 88 kWh usable up to maybe 92. Thus another 5% extra range too.

Just a guess.
 

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Chances for a future OTA range increase seems pretty good too. The 11% battery reserve they built in to protect the battery seems ripe for a future reduction if data collection shows battery health doing well. Expanding the 88 kWh usable up to maybe 92. Thus another 5% extra range too.

Just a guess.
Ford put the luxury and battery of a tesla s/x into their suv and priced it like a Y. The battery is 33% larger than the 3/y (a 100D) so yes they have room to expand useful battery in the future. It is nice knowing it is there.

For me I think it is better bag for the buck and will fit our needs better than s3xy. I am pretty sure when it arrives it will not be held together with duct tape.

Tesla plays with scalars and used 0.76 on the Y not 0.7 which makes the Y's EPA true fiction and almost impossible to obtain (down hill both ways may do it). The Ford "targeted" EPA sounds more reasonable with a 33% bigger battery and the same range (but obtainable). There is no magic in teslas engineering, efficiency or batteries (that they do not even make). If ford can obtain batteries I believe the E will eventually outsell the Y, throw in the VW ID4, Nissan Aryia and the Hyundai 45, all on the horizon, we have great things coming.

Love driving and soon to retire; looking forward to joy rides and not feeling guilty doing it. As long as Ford can get it to me by next spring I will be happy. If ford is reading this I am really really mad and want it yesterday! ;).
 

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If ford can obtain batteries I believe the E will eventually outsell the Y
I think so too (in the US), a few years down the road (maybe by 2022 or 2023). Teslas are hot among many EV enthusiasts. That's a highly motivated group that was (generally) willing to overpay and deal with some compromise for years. Now they're a viciously loyal group, but also a limited group (just a few% of the vehicle consumer marketplace).

By waiting to jump in until batteries were better and more affordable (albeit still pricey), Ford is positioning itself to leverage the MUCH bigger mainstream buyer base. People say that the MME and the Model Y are direct competitors, and in some ways they are, but I think Ford is aiming at a much bigger customer base, and has a far bigger upside.

Plus they were smart enough to make a vehicle that just plain looks cool rather than plain and frumpy.
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