Service - the big issue that's getting bigger

[Logal727]

They also said when I was considering buying a Lightning that they would not service it, and are standing behind that.

At least they were honest, but man, f that

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[superdave80]

A friend of mine was telling me that his brand new RAV4 had a defective windshield wiper blade. The service advisor wanted him to leave the car for 3-5 days.

This is the model that every dealership is using. Leave your car with us, and we'll work on it when we can fit it in to that we can make the most of the few people we employ. Our time is valuable, yours is worth nothing.

Adding on to my 'Kia dealerships suck' post earlier in the thread, they once actually wanted me to leave the vehicle overnight FOR A FREAKIN' OIL LEVEL/CONSUMPTION CHECK!

 

[voxel]

Not surprised. My co worker with an ID.4 has to schedule his service work months in advance. When I owned an 2021 ID.4 the local VW dealer where I bought it from only had ONE part time EV tech. He/she would show up twice a week at most and was working at the sibling dealerships the other days.

Doesn’t seem to have improved. Carmakers are focused on sales and not service + charging infrastructure + post sales etc.

 

[i8iridium]

I agree that there's issues all over the Brands, but the EV tech thing is what kills me. At a standard dealer service department, there is nothing that ANY tech can't to by following the service manuals! Software and diagnostic tools are the same for all Ford's EVs as the portions of their ICE line starting at 2020. They're not doing component level, circuit board level stuff. They're following a procedure and swapping a part. From what I've heard so far even with battery issues, it's swapping a pack and sending someplace else for more thorough diagnostics.

I think the bigger problem is that dealerships don't pay their techs squat, so there's no motivation to get qualified for anything else or even hire new techs.

 

[MachLovin]

So, 2 years in on EVs with Ford, and the service picture isn't getting any better. At first, I attributed it to the pandemic. Now, I'm not so sure.

This isn't a parts availability issue, it's a trained technician issue. I bought my MachEs from a dealer that provided me with relatively prompt service, but always had a queue and has been saying for 2 years now that they have 1 fully trained EV tech. They also said when I was considering buying a Lightning that they would not service it, and are standing behind that.

So, Lightning needs service. Made a bad decision to go with a close dealer that is small, instead of a bigger dealer that is 20 miles away. Bad move. The small dealer also has one EV tech, and he was out for 2 days. They might have me bring it back (I picked it up yesterday when he didn't come in again) tomorrow, if he finishes last week's job that they didn't know he had in his queue...

Calls to other dealerships, even from the BEV team, yield waits of 3 weeks or even 5 weeks, for an available tech.

It's not getting better, and it needs to. I don't know if Ford needs more classes, or needs to light the flame under the dealers butts, but as sales keep increasing this is going to get worse. Not optimistic right now.

I agree. This is Ford's BIGGEST problem. When I took my Mach E to a couple local dealers here it was shocking how little they knew about the vehicle as a whole; its really unnerving.

 

[heisnuts]

One of the problems is that few people have the desire to go into wrenching (becoming a tech) and only a few who do look into training for EVs. Becoming an EV tech requires a lot of mandatory manufacture training for which the tech will get paid only a fraction of what they would make if they were actually working on cars at a dealership. This training is ongoing and new modules are added all the time that require more training that will take them away from working on cars. Add to that the job can be back breaking work (having to contort to all different positions to get into tight dash areas, under body areas, etc) as well as frustrating work where you try to fix one thing and then another problem arises as a result. Then you have the warranty repairs like rattles, software glitches, etc that can take the tech a lot of time to find/solve and then only get paid for a fraction of the time they spent because Ford says they took too much time to figure it out/repair. Add the complexity of all the electronics and software issues with EVs and I can see how this problem is only going to get worse as time goes on unless something drastically changes.

This is also a reason I think independently owned and operated dealers are not going away anytime soon. Hiring and maintaining trained techs in a service department is not an easy thing to do these days and I don't think the manufactures like Ford are looking to get into that side of the business given how many locations nationwide they would need to manage.

 

[SWO]

They also said when I was considering buying a Lightning that they would not service it, and are standing behind that.

You would think that would be part of a dealer franchise agreement.

 

[heisnuts]

You would think that would be part of a dealer franchise agreement.

If they are one of the dealers who opted out of the EV requirements (investing $500K to $1.2M for upgrades and training) then they would be 100% on firm ground saying they will not be servicing any EVs.

 

[Blue highway]

Being EV certified makes sense if you are working on the HV powertrain... otherwise there little or no difference between ICE and EV... any tech that can follow directions would be qualified.

• Body/Mechanical? non drive train mechanicals are the same as ICE
• Software? FDRS works on ICE Fords
• Basics of EV safety handling can be trained quickly.

The concept of only EV certified techs working on EVs doesn't make sense unless you are dealing with the drivetrain.

 

[azerik]

My sister got Mercedes EQS last year. It comes with a puzzling feature. You can open the moon roof, but once it's open, it won't close until you take it to the dealer and they take 3 days resetting something. She's been dealing with that for over 6 months now. And that's for car with a $100K+ price tag!

First button my wife would push when she'd get in. Glad i didn't go that route lol.

 

[SONEWBE]

It's interesting this thread was started while I wait for my Mach-e to be updated per Ford's OTA team recommendation due to OTA updates no longer working. I dropped off my car early monday morning for the software updates. The car was moved into the shop for an hour on tuesday. Later that day I got a message that a recall was completed and they would get to the updates as soon as they could. My car didn't have any outstanding recalls! It's wednesday PM and they notified me to pick-up the car and bring it back next week. They said they have to order a wire for the XM radio which makes no sense. I asked to talk to the tech and she said the car threw an error for cell connection issues which I do understand. I asked why they couldn't do the software updates via FDRS while they wait for the part. I shared the information (again) that Ford OTA Team said that I wouldn't get OTA updates until the modules were updated via FDRS. That's when the service manager got upset and said they don't have time to look into this and to talk to the Service Manager.

I waiting for the Service Manager to call me back. We'll see how long that takes.

 

[RickMachE]

You would think that would be part of a dealer franchise agreement.

But it is not. They are not required to accept every customer.

 

[RickMachE]

I think there's a detail people are looking over. I don't think anyone is saying that it's not an industry wide problem. We continually see where the one and only EV tech goes on vacation, paternity leave etc and the car is stranded at the dealer for weeks waiting for their return. I think this is a big part of what Rick is saying and in the HVBJB thread just yesterday someone had the same problem.

Right.

When the Service Manager says in July 2021 that they have 1 EV tech, and Ford's classes are full and it can't get more trained, I get it. When, in July 2023, he hasn't remedied the problem somewhat I don't get it.

The dealer that was supposed to fix my Lightning Monday at 8AM has 1 EV tech. He called in sick (apparently he does that often, has an unfortunate condition). Then he doesn't come in on Tuesday, so they have me come get the truck. He comes in today, but "he has to rebuild a transmission that he had apart". Really? You didn't know that on Monday? Who's managing the guy?

So they MIGHT be calling me tomorrow to bring it in. I told them when he's 30 minutes from being ready to start, I will. And, if the part's not going to be installed prior to end of day Friday, I will pick it up until the part is in also.

A dealer with 3 trained techs is 3 weeks out on appointments, and 20 miles in each direction, so that's my next focus.

 

[markboris]

I wanted to comment that when I had my HVBJB replaced, I could have taken it to my local dealer that is literally 5 minutes from my home however, I didn't. They have only one EV tech and in the past couple of years of owning an Mach-E, they never seemed to know much about the car so I didn't feel comfortable having them replace the board. I drove 2 1/2 hours to a dealer that has 3 EV certified techs, Serramonte Ford. I brought my car in and a few hours later, it was done. I was told they average 3 HVBJB replacements a week and they have two dedicated specialized EV lifts that don't require special bars or apparatus to lift EV cars. Very professional dealer, at least in my experience.

The dealer and their service department can really influence your love or hate for the car you own.

Edit:
I was just informed from Jason, the fixed operations director at Serramonte Ford who right now happens to be at a Ford Mach-E/Lightning event in Long Beach, CA that there are two types of EV dealerships. Select and Elite. Their dealership (Serramonte Ford) is an EV elite which have much higher requirements than a select EV dealership. Don't know the particulars but thought I would pass that along.

 

[voxel]

This is also a reason I think independently owned and operated dealers are not going away anytime soon. Hiring and maintaining trained techs in a service department is not an easy thing to do these days and I don't think the manufactures like Ford are looking to get into that side of the business given how many locations nationwide they would need to manage.

As the EV market grows there will be more businesses like Electrified Garage, 57 motors, Gruber motors, etc.

https://www.electrifiedgarage.com/

In the future, many of us will avoid dealership service departments except for basic EV work.

Mach-E owners think they have it bad but reading about other EV manufacturers and it’s just nightmare and nightmare.

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