Stranded MME: 12+ days will not start - Deep Sleep

[mfbrown]

Seems like the issue with Ford servers today would throw a wrench in many of the suggestions here. Many of the "reset" ideas probably require the car to talk to servers that are not responding.

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[louibluey]

The 12V battery, not the main battery. You disconnect the 12V battery under the hood. Most likely a 12mm wrench for the negative battery cable but I haven't tried it.

10mm, easiest with a short extension and a socket wrench. I carry one in the car since Chevy Volt, when it saved the day more than once.

I would hope they would have tried that (lifting the negative LVB terminal) if it has been at the dealer for 12 days. I did not see that part (12 days!) on first read.

It is really starting to sound more like a wiring harness or module hardware problem. Hopefully not creatures eating wires like in another recent thread!

 

[juggler]

I'm ok with glitches but 12+ days with a car that won't start is unacceptable. No update from dealership or Ford Canada today - which is the primary reason I won't be getting another one. Communication goes a long way in keeping customers happy - I don't think Ford as figured that out yet.

I’m in a similar boat on a tech support battery issue w/mine… dealership says that they can’t get a response from Ford and tells me to call Ford customer service to put pressure and speed things - Ford customer service tells me that I need to work through my dealership… seems like nobody is taking responsibility. Luckily I can still drive mine… but it’s still acting funny and the dealership doesn’t know why.

 

[kltye]

Threads/posts like this make me want to travel to the individuals' cars to try some of the suggestions here + update the cars to 21P22. I can't imagine any car without an actual hardware issue bricking itself so severely. And the bricks we've seen here usually relate to the HVB portion of the car, e.g., a module or connector gone bad in the HVB.

 

[jdsimard2012]

Disconnecting the 12v should de-power the computers, as that's the source of power for them. Even if the computers are stuck in a glitch, reinstalling all the software modules should reset the software unless the bug is in the latest version of the software. Since there's also a factory reset option in the settings, I'm sure the dealership can do the equivalent from a computer hooked up to the car...

You would think they could.....

 

[jdsimard2012]

I’m in a similar boat on a tech support battery issue w/mine… dealership says that they can’t get a response from Ford and tells me to call Ford customer service to put pressure and speed things - Ford customer service tells me that I need to work through my dealership… seems like nobody is taking responsibility. Luckily I can still drive mine… but it’s still acting funny and the dealership doesn’t know why.

And this is the very reason this will be my last Ford. At the end of the day, Ford needs to step up and take responsibility, not pass it on the dealerships who have been barely trained on these new vehicles.

 

[juggler]

And this is the very reason this will be my last Ford. At the end of the day, Ford needs to step up and take responsibility, not pass it on the dealerships who have been barely trained on these new vehicles.

I figured as an early adopter of a new platform that we’d have some trouble as we are a bit of a guinea pig. I’m hoping that Ford will catch up someday with the other more tech savvy brands. I think Ford can make a car but not yet convinced they can make the software/app/UI run smooth. I would appreciate more transparency and that they might acknowledge the issues and are actively working on it… rather than the finger pointing/deflection game between a dealer and corporate… that’s not good customer service and they will likely lose customers.

 

[mccdeuce]

And this is the very reason this will be my last Ford. At the end of the day, Ford needs to step up and take responsibility, not pass it on the dealerships who have been barely trained on these new vehicles.

This is a terrible situation to be in for sure - unfortunately I do not think this is unique to Ford.

I have a 2021 VW Tiguan. Died in the middle of an intersection near a VW dealer. They replaced a starter called it good and sent me on my way 3 days later. No loaner was initially provided until vehicle was already at the dealer for 24 hours. Afterwards SUV had another glitch - took it back. No loaner, and after 48 hours they returned it to me saying there is nothing wrong with the vehicle that they can fix. VW Corporate says take to another dealer. So I schedule an appt at original dealer I purchased the vehicle from, 40 miles from the house. No loaner provided. 48 hours - "Nothing wrong" with the vehicle. I send them pictures of the glitches reported on the screen while driving - low and behold they find a ground wire not connected after another 48 hours. In all I am out $300 and a lot of my time. Corporate does nothing. Corporate has no power over dealerships yet rely 100% on dealerships for warranty related issues.

Ford is no different. Tesla is trying to be different but I am not sold on their success with maintenance and warranty issues. Ford is trying to make dealers get training, but as I understand it the only way they can enforce the training is to not allow a dealer to sell EVs without being training in maintenance of them. At the end of the day - EVs are still in their early days - less than 4% of US sales and 3% for Canada this year.

My 2 cents - I wouldn't rule out any future vehicle based on experiences today.

 

[dtbaker61]

Great suggestion. I suggested that to the dealership, guess what? The only way to disconnect the car from the batteries is to lift it off the body. At least this is what I was told, which if true is another design defect as there should be a lever to disconnect the batteries from the car without removing the chassis.

There is absolutely a way to disconnect the HV .... hidden under the driver's side 'beauty cover' in the Frunk, there is a connector that cuts power to the HV relay, and disconnects the HV. Dealer Service should know this!

My bet is that if you disconnect the HV, and disconnect the LVB battery negative as long as you are under the covers, wait 15 minutes and reconnect LVB and the HV you will have done as complete a reboot as is possible....

 

[deadduck]

This is a terrible situation to be in for sure - unfortunately I do not think this is unique to Ford.

Despite some of the things I write I think Ford would be very much in favor of a rapid fix. I think the logistics of a new vehicle like this, the way it's marketed, etc., make it something prone to difficulties in ways a regular ICE vehicle wouldn't be.

It's sort of a risk you have to reconcile with before you buy.

 

[SnBGC]

There is absolutely a way to disconnect the HV .... hidden under the driver's side 'beauty cover' in the Frunk, there is a connector that cuts power to the HV relay, and disconnects the HV. Dealer Service should know this!

My bet is that if you disconnect the HV, and disconnect the LVB battery negative as long as you are under the covers, wait 15 minutes and reconnect LVB and the HV you will have done as complete a reboot as is possible....

That connector is low voltage. You are correct in that it's purpose is to disconnect the HVB but it does that by breaking the low voltage (signal) circuit to the high voltage relays. Is those are stuck and won't unlatch then disconnecting the signal may not open the HVB circuit.

 

[dtbaker61]

That connector is low voltage. You are correct in that it's purpose is to disconnect the HVB but it does that by breaking the low voltage (signal) circuit to the high voltage relays. Is those are stuck and won't unlatch then disconnecting the signal may not open the HVB circuit.

true that.... the connector we can get to is just the contactor relay power. If contactor is welded shut internally, you're screwed. But that's the documented way in Ford Service manual to disconnect the HV for service procedures needing to cut HV power so that the dc-dc doesn't freakout or try to charge the LVB system while you are working on it.

I would much rather see an actual 'cut loop' of the HV + exposed for emergency disconnect, but.... that's not what we have.

The only way to have the best chance of depowering everything for hard reset is pulling the HV relay connection, AND disconnecting LVB.

 

[jdsimard2012]

This is a terrible situation to be in for sure - unfortunately I do not think this is unique to Ford.

I have a 2021 VW Tiguan. Died in the middle of an intersection near a VW dealer. They replaced a starter called it good and sent me on my way 3 days later. No loaner was initially provided until vehicle was already at the dealer for 24 hours. Afterwards SUV had another glitch - took it back. No loaner, and after 48 hours they returned it to me saying there is nothing wrong with the vehicle that they can fix. VW Corporate says take to another dealer. So I schedule an appt at original dealer I purchased the vehicle from, 40 miles from the house. No loaner provided. 48 hours - "Nothing wrong" with the vehicle. I send them pictures of the glitches reported on the screen while driving - low and behold they find a ground wire not connected after another 48 hours. In all I am out $300 and a lot of my time. Corporate does nothing. Corporate has no power over dealerships yet rely 100% on dealerships for warranty related issues.

Ford is no different. Tesla is trying to be different but I am not sold on their success with maintenance and warranty issues. Ford is trying to make dealers get training, but as I understand it the only way they can enforce the training is to not allow a dealer to sell EVs without being training in maintenance of them. At the end of the day - EVs are still in their early days - less than 4% of US sales and 3% for Canada this year.

My 2 cents - I wouldn't rule out any future vehicle based on experiences today.

Appreciate you putting that into perspective. Your comments make a lot of sense. However, I'm still not happy, Ford should be standing behind their new "flagship" electric vehicle.

 

[jdsimard2012]

true that.... the connector we can get to is just the contactor relay power. If contactor is welded shut internally, you're screwed. But that's the documented way in Ford Service manual to disconnect the HV for service procedures needing to cut HV power so that the dc-dc doesn't freakout or try to charge the LVB system while you are working on it.

I would much rather see an actual 'cut loop' of the HV + exposed for emergency disconnect, but.... that's not what we have.

The only way to have the best chance of depowering everything for hard reset is pulling the HV relay connection, AND disconnecting LVB.

Not understanding a lot of this, except, there should be a "easy" disconnect somewhere on the vehicle! If there is the dealership does not know about it.

UPDATE: Ford did reach out in a private conversation from this group. Not sure what will occur, but moving into day 13 with a car sitting 750km away. We will see what happens!

 

[louibluey]

Not understanding a lot of this, except, there should be a "easy" disconnect somewhere on the vehicle! If there is the dealership does not know about it.

UPDATE: Ford did reach out in a private conversation from this group. Not sure what will occur, but moving into day 13 with a car sitting 750km away. We will see what happens!

I think (hope) it might go well. We have seen a few of these horrible cases, where Ford jumps in and gets the car fixed, even on occasion sending out a factory tech or engineer. Here's hoping anyway. They might win you back yet.

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