Tesla Drops Prices... Will Ford?

[polzovotel]

All I have heard so far is how bad the quality control is on the Y. That was enough to put me off regardless of the bleh looks..

As someone who took the delivery of MY and returned it - it did had issues, mostly pannel gaps, and hatch alignment was a bit off. Driving wise - it was fine. I returned it mostly because of seats (I really did not like the material as well as the headrest - it is not adjustable, and my wife hated it) and Tesla tech team - they just rude. Other considerations - you should know that any repair may take a while.

However, after going to Ford dealer (Covert) here in Austin, TX, I realized that they are also not the best Maybe I just got used to exceptionally good service of Honda dealer here

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[JellyBelly]

However, after going to Ford dealer (Covert) here in Austin, TX, I realized that they are also not the best Maybe I just got used to exceptionally good service of Honda dealer here

For the first year or so, I am expecting some Ford dealers to also struggle with the learning curve with Mach E (- although they have experience with plugin hybrids) - hope they all have some special training and designated individuals to handle Mach E issues , repairs etc.

 

[JCHLi]

Yep, there is no lowered Tesla price that would interest me --- looks and a 600 mile round trip to the nearest Tesla service center make it a non-starter.

Their stock is going absolutely crazy today --- up to over $1,760 from a low of $211 in the last year. That is a Market Cap of $327B --- Ford is $24B about 7% of that.

Ford delivered worldwide 17.1 million trucks and cars in 2019.
Tesla delivered 367,500 in 2019.

Completely nuts!

Shhhhhh, you'll wake them up!

 

[ajmartineau]

Ford could undercut the MY $ if they wanted to grab marketshare.

 

[opennetus]

Yep, there is no lowered Tesla price that would interest me --- looks and a 600 mile round trip to the nearest Tesla service center make it a non-starter.

Their stock is going absolutely crazy today --- up to over $1,760 from a low of $211 in the last year. That is a Market Cap of $327B --- Ford is $24B about 7% of that.

Ford delivered worldwide 17.1 million trucks and cars in 2019.
Tesla delivered 367,500 in 2019.

Completely nuts!

The Tesla Cult in action.

Tesla, unlike all other automakers, is treated like a “tech stock”, where actual profits, volume, and performance doesn’t really matter as long as you are seen as an innovator. Some times a tech bubble bursts big time, and some times they just keep growing bigger and bigger. It is all based on a long, long range growth projection. (Becoming the next Amazon or Apple)

 

[JCHLi]

The Tesla Cult in action.

Tesla, unlike all other automakers, is treated like a “tech stock”, where actual profits, volume, and performance doesn’t really matter as long as you are seen as an innovator. Some times a tech bubble bursts big time, and some times they just keep growing bigger and bigger. It is all based on a long, long range growth projection. (Becoming the next Amazon or Apple)

Or the next WeWork...

 

[Mach Daddy]

Cutting off the lowest-end model seems like Tesla wants to stay a "Premium" brand, not for the masses. I am sure they have seen sales slow down on other models besides the new Y due to oversaturation in key markets. As I don't think someone who pays >$60k for a car wants it to look identical to a <$40k version.

Ford and other legacy automakers have an advantage on this regard. Just look at the product range within the F-150 and even within the MME. While Tesla struggles to put out a car where the only options are 5 colors and two interiors. No way you can close to as many cars as VW, Ford Toyota without figuring that out.

You might want to reset your expectations if you have a reservation for a base model Cybertruck.

 

[JCHLi]

Cutting off the lowest-end model seems like Tesla wants to stay a "Premium" brand, not for the masses. I am sure they have seen sales slow down on other models besides the new Y due to oversaturation in key markets. As I don't think someone who pays >$60k for a car wants it to look identical to a <$40k version.

Ford and other legacy automakers have an advantage on this regard. Just look at the product range within the F-150 and even within the MME. While Tesla struggles to put out a car where the only options are 5 colors and two interiors. No way you can close to as many cars as VW, Ford Toyota without figuring that out.

You might want to reset your expectations if you have a reservation for a base model Cybertruck.

But I want those unbreakable windows!

 

[RyZt]

As someone who took the delivery of MY and returned it - it did had issues, mostly pannel gaps, and hatch alignment was a bit off. Driving wise - it was fine. I returned it mostly because of seats (I really did not like the material as well as the headrest - it is not adjustable, and my wife hated it) and Tesla tech team - they just rude. Other considerations - you should know that any repair may take a while.

I'm surprised that these head restraint issues isn't brought up more often.

YouTube video on DIY fix to Model 3 head restraint:
Reddit thread on the equally bad Model Y head restraint:

I develop back pains if I don't sit relatively upright. These angle head restraints from Tesla (and certain other brands) are intolerable unless you recline the seat back a lot.

To me, it was a major relief when I saw that the Mach E order guide lists 4-way adjustable head restraint as "standard equipment" of Premium trim. It guarantees that Mach E head restraint will work for me. When the head restraint is fixed or 2-way adjustable, it would be a hit or miss.

At 9.25% sales tax, my ordered space-white Mach E Premium AWD is $55779 (after tax credit, with X Plan, including destination). Model Y AWD is $55925 (including destination), $146 more. It used to be that Y was $3423 more. I'm saddened by this change, but I'm not getting a Y. I wish Ford can adjust the price down.

 

[Woeo]

Maybe true, but his points are mostly valid. Based on pure specs, the model y holds a solid advantage over the mach e in most respects.

For me, the mach e is my choice for the styling, interior functionality, service network convenience, fit/finish advantage and my general affinity for Ford and Mustang.

I would be surprised if Ford had a 100% equivalent offering considering the head start that tesla has had. Compared to most others, Ford has by far come the closest to matching teslas capability, imo.

To each their own...

Did some cost comparison (with my 9.25% local tax rate):
MY LR AWD: $49990
MME ER AWD: $57700 + 693 (extra tax on $7500) - $7500 = $50893. ==> +$903 higher
MME ER RWD: $55000 + 693 (extra tax on $7500) - $7500 = $48193. ==> -$1797 lower

Now comparison on spec:
0-60: 4.7 vs 6.5
Max Speed: 135 vs 111 (?)
Range: 315 vs 270/300
Tires: P255 vs P225
AP: generations apart?
Charging: 350KW vs 150KW. From SF to LA, SC has 10x more stalls than EA. Most of EA location on the route only have 2/3 stalls which practically not usable during holiday traffic

Obviously MME ER AWD completely loses to MY LR AWD from every angle, except probably better interior and build quality. For MME ER RWD which will be around $2K lower in most states, the price diff is not competitive either given all the compromises on the spec.

Ford has to lower the MME pricing, otherwise I don't think they will have a chance. It's just when. The worst thing may happen is that for the first adopters who will pay full then after couple months, retail customer bonus kicks in just like what Tesla is doing with MY right now. Lose thousands within your couple months ownership.

If I were Ford, I will choose to match MY in order to keep upcoming MME still be relevant. Of course, there is another way to stay in the race, making spec more attractive against MY, which we all know it is not practical. Making profit is important only when you have the market shares secured not the other way around.

you forgot destination charges and x-plan pricing

 

[SD_Solar]

The Tesla Cult in action.

Tesla, unlike all other automakers, is treated like a “tech stock”, where actual profits, volume, and performance doesn’t really matter as long as you are seen as an innovator. Some times a tech bubble bursts big time, and some times they just keep growing bigger and bigger.

Yep, Tesla’s sales were about 2% of Fords in 2019 and Fords Market Stock valuation is about 7% of Tesla.

If you really want to blow your mind --- consider this, Tesla’s Current Market Cap valuation of $327B Divided by 2019 sales of 367,500 is about $890,000 per delivered vehicle --- seems a little high.

 

[buzznwood]

Cutting off the lowest-end model seems like Tesla wants to stay a "Premium" brand, not for the masses. I am sure they have seen sales slow down on other models besides the new Y due to oversaturation in key markets. As I don't think someone who pays >$60k for a car wants it to look identical to a <$40k version.

Ford and other legacy automakers have an advantage on this regard. Just look at the product range within the F-150 and even within the MME. While Tesla struggles to put out a car where the only options are 5 colors and two interiors. No way you can close to as many cars as VW, Ford Toyota without figuring that out.

You might want to reset your expectations if you have a reservation for a base model Cybertruck.

I know EV's are expensive but to this day I just can not fathom where this idea that tesla is a premium brand comes from, the build and material quality is so far below what is expect of a premium brand

 

[silverelan]

Cutting off the lowest-end model seems like Tesla wants to stay a "Premium" brand, not for the masses.

I was having a conversation about this with someone speculating on why Tesla decided not to move forward with a standard range Model Y.

I was convinced think we should take Elon at his word on this that the range would suck. If you option 20-in wheels and a tow hitch, the range with a 50kWh battery just plummets down to laughable numbers. It's just not worth it to Tesla to have such a short range vehicle in their lineup.

Kudos to Ford to making it work at an attractive price point.

 

[Mach Daddy]

I know EV's are expensive but to this day I just can not fathom where this idea that tesla is a premium brand comes from, the build and material quality is so far below what is expect of a premium brand

Same thought here. I am guessing they lack the production knowledge to add premium sector like features, quality and choice. And probably a reduction to range due to extra weight and power usage of extra features?

FYI, if you are looking for a basic commuter with style and extra space. Starting prices:

Model X: $80,000
Model S: $75,000
Model Y: $50,000
Model 3: $38,000
Mach E Select: $36,500 (After Tax Credit)

I would assume the $44,000 starting price of the Select will drop after the Federal Tax Credit expires.

 

[Stickboy46]

Same thought here. I am guessing they lack the production knowledge to add premium sector like features, quality and choice. And probably a reduction to range due to extra weight and power usage of extra features?

FYI, if you are looking for a basic commuter with style and extra space. Starting prices:

Model X: $80,000
Model S: $75,000
Model Y: $50,000
Model 3: $38,000
Mach E Select: $36,500 (After Tax Credit)

I would assume the $44,000 starting price of the Select will drop after the Federal Tax Credit expires.

There is technically a 35k Model 3 .. but I'm not sure why anyone would not go for the 38k option.

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