Update on Mach-E launch progress from engineering friends in Mexico

[ChasingCoral]

Li-ion has a slow discharge rate like 3%/month. Most Li-ion products shipped with 50-60% charged state. Since MME has buffers they can be higher.
I would rather they don’t come out of the factory with 100% charge.

Yes but this is assuming there are not systems on board the Mach E that use significant energy while unused. I hope that it won't but we just don't know yet.

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[Shayne]

Agree.
The usable amount designated by Ford has nothing to do with safety. It is because of the warranty requirements. That reserve is there to offset degredation. Ford has a pretty darn good idea how many charge cycles the battery pack can manage before it begins to run foul of the warranty requirements.

Appears they just slap another 10% buffer on to it so the warranty will now cover only greater than 40% degradation? If past history repeats I do not think they should worry about 30 (now 40%) degradation in 8 years. Hoping the batteries have progressed past that now. Guess they can do it and still hit the target range? I would take the range and degradation any day.

 

[FPLiptak]

Isn’t fully charging it part of dealer prep?

I seem to recall getting a half-tank of gas on almost every new car I've bought over the last 25 years (5 including the Bolt which did come fully charged).

 

[SnBGC]

Appears they just slap another 10% buffer on to it so the warranty will now cover only greater than 40% degradation? If past history repeats I do not think they should worry about 30 (now 40%) degradation in 8 years. Hoping the batteries have progressed past that now. Guess they can do it and still hit the target range? I would take the range and degradation any day.

I am not sure really. It think it's going to depend on how the warranty reads. My uncle is an EV certified tech for Ford and when we got our C-Max Energi the battery warranty was really very vague. The way he explained it is either it works or it doesn't. No mention on capacity or degradation limits. It was VERY hard to get any battery warranty claim approved on those vehicles.

The MME is actually the first vehicle that I am aware of where the manufacturer publishes the "usable" figures. I am sure Ford is doing this because of warranty reasons but I don't know if that is regulated or not. I would have to look up, read and then try and comprehend what the 8yr/100,000 mile Federal warranty requirement says. There is probably language that identifies what is in compliance and what is out of compliance. if there is some sort of maximum allowable degradation figure (as a percentage or otherwise) then that would likely be based on the original "usable" figure published by Ford.

We all should take a moment to read the warranty pamphlets and then pose a couple of scenarios to the dealership to see if the battery would be covered or not. Even then...it's really up to the adjuster on a case by case basis anyway so anything your dealer says should be taken with a grain of salt because they really don't know either.....unless they have some experience with warranty replacement on the Focus Electric but those instances are likely to be fairly rare.

I think the battery pack is going to last a very long time. Count on one hand the quantity of original owners that will actually wear it out and get a new one installed. I doubt we will even recognize any degradation for the first 3-4 years at the earliest. Then maybe we might see maybe 5% or 10% degradation perhaps.

I have yet to notice any degradation on my Focus Electric and it has about 42,000 miles so far. I charge to 100% SOC every night. Discharge most days about 50%-60% and other days I take it down much lower (20%-30% range). So, the battery gets cycled fairly heavy for a 33.5 kWh capacity (about 30.5 kWh usable) but it doesn't seem to be suffering any. Still hums along it's merry way without a care in the world. Between the 3 Ford Focus Electrics in our extended family.....only 1 service call and it was on my car. The HVB cooling valve was faulty and needed to be replaced. Otherwise there have been zero issues.

 

[JamieGeek]

Yes but this is assuming there are not systems on board the Mach E that use significant energy while unused. I hope that it won't but we just don't know yet.

If the Mach-E works like the Focus Electric that won't be an issue: When the car is "off" the high voltage battery is completely disconnected from the car and thus nothing is drawing current from it.

The bigger issue about sleeping systems is the 12V battery. With the car "off" the modem and some other items may be drawing a little bit of current from that one.

So once you get your VIN and you know your car is on the way...don't keep hitting refresh on "vehicle status" in Ford Pass as that will wake up modules in the car and make them talk to the cloud

 

[Jim_I]

Yes but this is assuming there are not systems on board the Mach E that use significant energy while unused. I hope that it won't but we just don't know yet.

The Bolt has a "Transport Mode" to stop those parasitic loads from draining the 12V battery. It is easy to enable and disable. When I would go north, I would enable that mode and when I returned a few months later, I would disable it. Car would start right up. If I didn't enable it, the 12V battery would be drained and needed a jump to get the car started.

I am sure the MME will have something similar.

Jim

 

[Shayne]

I am not sure really. It think it's going to depend on how the warranty reads. My uncle is an EV certified tech for Ford and when we got our C-Max Energi the battery warranty was really very vague. The way he explained it is either it works or it doesn't. No mention on capacity or degradation limits. It was VERY hard to get any battery warranty claim approved on those vehicles.

The MME is actually the first vehicle that I am aware of where the manufacturer publishes the "usable" figures. I am sure Ford is doing this because of warranty reasons but I don't know if that is regulated or not. I would have to look up, read and then try and comprehend what the 8yr/100,000 mile Federal warranty requirement says. There is probably language that identifies what is in compliance and what is out of compliance. if there is some sort of maximum allowable degradation figure (as a percentage or otherwise) then that would likely be based on the original "usable" figure published by Ford.

We all should take a moment to read the warranty pamphlets and then pose a couple of scenarios to the dealership to see if the battery would be covered or not. Even then...it's really up to the adjuster on a case by case basis anyway so anything your dealer says should be taken with a grain of salt because they really don't know either.....unless they have some experience with warranty replacement on the Focus Electric but those instances are likely to be fairly rare.

I think the battery pack is going to last a very long time. Count on one hand the quantity of original owners that will actually wear it out and get a new one installed. I doubt we will even recognize any degradation for the first 3-4 years at the earliest. Then maybe we might see maybe 5% or 10% degradation perhaps.

I have yet to notice any degradation on my Focus Electric and it has about 42,000 miles so far. I charge to 100% SOC every night. Discharge most days about 50%-60% and other days I take it down much lower (20%-30% range). So, the battery gets cycled fairly heavy for a 33.5 kWh capacity (about 30.5 kWh usable) but it doesn't seem to be suffering any. Still hums along it's merry way without a care in the world. Between the 3 Ford Focus Electrics in our extended family.....only 1 service call and it was on my car. The HVB cooling valve was faulty and needed to be replaced. Otherwise there have been zero issues.

Yes as you say not much noticed so give us the whole 98.8 KWh (range initially) and let us deal with degradation.

The FAQ states it fairly clearly MME FAQ

13. What is the warranty on the Mustang Mach-E?

Our New Vehicle Limited Warranty will help give you peace of mind with the following:
Electric Vehicle Component Coverage: 8 years or 100,00 miles (whichever occurs first), with retention of 70% or more of the original High Voltage Battery capacity over that period.7
Powertrain coverage: 5 years / 60,000 miles7
Bumper to Bumper coverage: 3 years / 36,000 miles7
Safety Restraint System coverage: 5 years / 60,000 miles7
Corrosion coverage (Perforation only): 5 years / unlimited miles7
Electric Vehicle Roadside Assistance Program: 5 years / 60,000 miles7

⁷ Whichever comes first. See dealer for details.

Who knows if that now means 30 plus hold back or including.

 

[SnBGC]

Yes as you say not much noticed so give us the whole 98.8 KWh (range initially) and let us deal with degradation.

The FAQ states it fairly clearly MME FAQ

13. What is the warranty on the Mustang Mach-E?

Our New Vehicle Limited Warranty will help give you peace of mind with the following:
Electric Vehicle Component Coverage: 8 years or 100,00 miles (whichever occurs first), with retention of 70% or more of the original High Voltage Battery capacity over that period.7
Powertrain coverage: 5 years / 60,000 miles7
Bumper to Bumper coverage: 3 years / 36,000 miles7
Safety Restraint System coverage: 5 years / 60,000 miles7
Corrosion coverage (Perforation only): 5 years / unlimited miles7
Electric Vehicle Roadside Assistance Program: 5 years / 60,000 miles7

⁷ Whichever comes first. See dealer for details.

Who knows if that now means 30 plus hold back or including.

I bet that means 70% of the original (usable) capacity.

Translation. None or very very few batteries will be replaced under warranty for degredation causes.

 

[SnBGC]

If the Mach-E works like the Focus Electric that won't be an issue: When the car is "off" the high voltage battery is completely disconnected from the car and thus nothing is drawing current from it.

The bigger issue about sleeping systems is the 12V battery. With the car "off" the modem and some other items may be drawing a little bit of current from that one.

So once you get your VIN and you know your car is on the way...don't keep hitting refresh on "vehicle status" in Ford Pass as that will wake up modules in the car and make them talk to the cloud

I wonder if that will work while the vehicle is in Mexico?

When I was overseas last year, the Ford App would not connect with my vehicles back home. Gave me an "out of region" error.
??

 

[Shayne]

I bet that means 70% of the original (usable) capacity.

Translation. None or very very few batteries will be replaced under warranty for degredation causes.

Ya that is what I was thinking they just gave themselves another 10% with this hold back and no coverage is now until 40% degradation. The 10 KWh hold back better be there and I think (hope) that at that point no worries for Ford or us. Time will tell.

 

[JamieGeek]

I wonder if that will work while the vehicle is in Mexico?

When I was overseas last year, the Ford App would not connect with my vehicles back home. Gave me an "out of region" error.
??

My Focus Electric would do that after about 2 days. I think they put in a "deep sleep" into the software so that it doesn't completely kill the battery if its sitting for a while.

 

[kdryden99]

If

My Focus Electric would do that after about 2 days. I think they put in a "deep sleep" into the software so that it doesn't completely kill the battery if its sitting for a while.

If you plug it into a 120 would it still do this?

 

[MachE2021]

Ya that is what I was thinking they just gave themselves another 10% with this hold back and no coverage is now until 40% degradation. The 10 KWh hold back better be there and I think (hope) that at that point no worries for Ford or us. Time will tell.

It’s not quite 40% degradation if you do the math. It’s 70% of 89% capacity, so it’s really only 37.7% of the full capacity.

 

[janitorjim]

It’s not quite 40% degradation if you do the math. It’s 70% of 89% capacity, so it’s really only 37.7% of the full capacity.

btw still no email from ford about price reduction. Sure you all have been waiting for that answer

 

[ajmartineau]

The maths I get... You start with 88kWh minus 30% is 61.6kWh. So once you go below that you are in a warrantee situation.
Now 61.6 kWh is 62.35% of the original battery of 98.8. Ford will have to decide how they want to calculate 70%, but that is the most Ford biased way. Also, in 3-5 years if need be, Ford can just open up some of the reserves to give us an extra 5-6kWh. That could keep them from having to replace batteries that were failing for an extra year or two.

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