Vacation Trips - Not in a Mach E

[JamieGeek]

Sadly for any non Tesla vehicle I kind of agree. I've often looked at plugshare trying to determine how far I could go. Given the availability of chargers I could take my Bolt South and East but not North and not West (there are more than 2 DC fast chargers in Michigan).

Having said all that, the pic below is how we take the Bolt for long trips. This past summer its been to Toronto and all over New Jersey. Its even been to places with no charger for hundreds of miles--I simply used the campground to charge it up.

A family member has a Model S and they have driven it all over the Eastern seaboard without issue.

It all comes down to what are you comfortable with? At an EV event once I was talking with a couple that also had a Focus Electric (the early, short ranged, one--76 miles or so and no DC FC). They would frequently take it on 300, 400, 500 mile trips..they just had to be patient.

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[hybrid2bev]

I can’t wait to take some long road trips in our Mach-E!! I’ve already started using A Better Route Planner to map out some trips from MI to Niagara Falls NY and Savanna GA.

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

 

[Billyk24]

Thanks for the new trip planner. However, it seems to not have as many charging locations at plug share.

 

[hybrid2bev]

Thanks for the new trip planner. However, it seems to not have as many charging locations at plug share.

I agree but I really like all of the settings on the route planner. The fact that it accounts for elevation, weather and speed. I think it’s a good guide to be used in conjunction with Plug Share.

 

[dbsb3233]

For our 800 mile trips the MachE will require 3 stops of 1 hour for a recharge. I don't believe I can spend the extra time waiting on electricity. The MachE may be fine for around town/work commuting, but day trips or vacations it will not work. I have been trying to make myself like the GT version in Grabber Blue, as were my two previous Mustangs were, but it will not cut it for me as we are preparing to be a one car family. Once our 2017 C-Max is finished with its "tour of duty" I will start looking at the Explorer again.

For 800 miles, you can forget about just 3 stops. Try 5 or 6. Probably 30-40 minutes each.

To do 800 miles in a day, you're surely on the interstate. Most of it doing around 75 MPH. Mileage plummets in a BEV at 75 MPH. Probably with the A/C or heat on too. That 270 mile range (ER AWD) should be more like 205 at those speeds. And that's only on the first full charge overnight. On the ~80% charges after that at public charging stations, you're down to 165. And that's if they're all perfectly spaced, which they won't be. Figure minimum 5 legs to go 800 miles. More likely 6. With probably 4 total hours of charging. Your 12 hour drive just became 16-17 (counting some extra miles off the direct route to reach the chargers). Plus you're empty when you arrive so factor in another full charge at your destination.

I checked just such a route out. We like to drive from our home north of Denver to Las Vegas once or twice a year. 785 miles in ~12 hours in our Escape. I plugged it into ABRP and it jumps to 853 miles and 17 hours.

Not even worth considering in a BEV. We'll keep taking the Escape. The Mach-e will be for home-based driving only, charging every night at home in the garage. It will be fantastic for that, but only that. For anything over 200 miles, the Mach-e will stay home.

 

[silverelan]

@dbsb3233

How quick must the charging be for you to consider opting for the BEV over the fossil car?

 

[dbsb3233]

@dbsb3233

How quick must the charging be for you to consider opting for the BEV over the fossil car?

For an 800 mile day drive, probably under 15 minutes. Anything much longer starts adding hours to the already max'd out drive day and requires a hotel stop.

But that all combines with range @75MPH too. 6 refuel stops is also too many. We do it in 2 in our Escape.

I know no BEV will ever be able to match the trip times we can get in an ICE. A total of 10 minutes of gasoline refueling for 800 miles can never be matched by batteries. It comes down to HOW MUCH compromise is acceptable? One total hour of recharging stops isn't bad (there's usually one lunch stop anyway). 2 wasted hours is getting bad. 4 is out of the question.

But that's fine, because there's always the option to take an ICE car instead. And use the BEV 95% of the time for home driving. Right cars for the right jobs.

 

[silverelan]

For an 800 mile day drive, probably under 15 minutes. Anything much longer starts adding hours to the already max'd out drive day and requires a hotel stop...
One total hour of recharging stops isn't bad (there's usually one lunch stop anyway). 2 wasted hours is getting bad. 4 is out of the question...

800 miles is a long but doable day in the saddle and agree with you that 2 hours of charging for that time is the most you can marginally spare before making it a two day trip.

I think if the Mach-E AWD had a range of 350 miles at 70mph with climate control running with a 10->80% recharge time of 30 minutes, it's viable.

300mi leg 1
250mi leg 2
250mi leg 3

If the Mach-E had a better DCFC time that was closer to the Taycan on EA, it'd be doable today with the AWD range. 5-6 stops at ~20 mins each.

What's your DEN<->LAS road trip cadence look like (how often do you stop for nature breaks, food and gasoline)?

 

[dbsb3233]

800 miles is a long but doable day in the saddle and agree with you that 2 hours of charging for that time is the most you can marginally spare before making it a two day trip.

I think if the Mach-E AWD had a range of 350 miles at 70mph with climate control running with a 10->80% recharge time of 30 minutes, it's viable.

300mi leg 1
250mi leg 2
250mi leg 3

If the Mach-E had a better DCFC time that was closer to the Taycan on EA, it'd be doable today with the AWD range. 5-6 stops at ~20 mins each.

What's your DEN<->LAS road trip cadence look like (how often do you stop for nature breaks, food and gasoline)?

We tend to be "just get there" drivers. DEN-LAS is such a long 1-day drive that we don't waste any time. We only make 2 stops (Grand Junction and Richfield). 5-10 minutes for one (just gas) and maybe 25-30 minutes at the other (grab an Arby's at that gas stop). Gets us there early enough to check in and have dinner in Vegas. It also allows us to make it all in daylight. I know we're probably on the extreme end of most road-trippers though. Many need/want more stops. And most aren't doing 785 miles in one day.

The mountain driving in CO lowers our average speed to maybe 70. But in UT it's 80 and flat nearly the whole way. That's the majority of the miles. That would be the killer for BEV driving as we're likely to drop that miles/kWh rate to 3.2 or less. And I'm not one willing to drive 10 MPH below the speed limit. Maybe the Mach-e will do better but all comparisons I've done don't suggest it.

It would be nice if we got those 300/250/250 ranges you note but at 75-80 MPH speeds, I really think 200/160/160... would need to be the realistic pattern. (Which is more what ABRP shows, BTW.) I might be willing to do a 300 mile max distance that way, but not 800. Just too many long stops. And frankly even for 300 miles we'd just take the Escape for full freedom.

We didn't even count the other little factors, like sometimes needing to go well off the direct route to get to a charger (adding total miles)... the anxiety of praying the chargers aren't full, or broken... the potential lack of desirable food/facilities where the charger is located (since you're stuck walking from there)... maybe still needing a 30-45 minute public refuel at the destination... and basically having to plan your trip around chargers. That not to say that's not all possible, but it's a lot of limitation and compromise that adds up.

 

[silverelan]

@dbsb3233

Thanks for sharing. You guys are machines for that kind of road trip schedule!

I can't go more than a couple of hours before I need to dehydrate from all the caffeine intake. Our longest road trips work out to be about 500 miles from Seattle to Boise and takes us 4-5 stops for Starbucks input/output and gas. If each stop is a chance to charge, it probably won't be a big deal for us to transition to a BEV.

My buddy is driving from WA to UT right now in a Model S 90D and is seeing ~450wh/mi (2.2mi/kWh) with a roof rack, 35F temps and 70mph avg speeds. With the latest software update he can charge from 15 -> 85% in 25 49 mins using v2 supercharger. Ford We should take note.

 

[dbsb3233]

That better charging rate would be great. I'm guessing that's a product of Tesla's superior proprietary batteries. That's where they have the edge from their decade-long head start. Presumably Ford will catch up but not in time for the 2021 Mach-e, unfortunately. The LG Chem batteries sound like they're limited to 150 kW max charging. Or at least I'm assuming it's a battery limitation. Hope I'm wrong and that future software unlocks more.

That 2.2mi/kWh figure is what I fear will be more realistic at high speeds. I'm hoping it's better on the Mach-e, but probably not a lot. With 70% (10<-->80) of Ford's 99 kWh ER battery @ 2.2, that's just 154 miles.

 

[silverelan]

That better charging rate would be great. I'm guessing that's a product of Tesla's superior proprietary batteries. That's where they have the edge from their decade-long head start. Presumably Ford will catch up but not in time for the 2021 Mach-e, unfortunately. The LG Chem batteries sound like they're limited to 150 kW max charging. Or at least I'm assuming it's a battery limitation. Hope I'm wrong and that future software unlocks more.

That 2.2mi/kWh figure is what I fear will be more realistic at high speeds. I'm hoping it's better on the Mach-e, but probably not a lot. With 70% (10<-->80) of Ford's 99 kWh ER battery @ 2.2, that's just 154 miles.

I had misread his TeslaFi report and made a correction to the charge times. 150kW charging sounded nice right up until Tesla and Porsche showed off 250kW+ charging.

I think you're right about the range of 150-160 miles per subsequent charge. 45mins for each session just becomes unbearably long after a couple of stops if you indeed have to do long stretches. A better route planner suggests four 22min stops for my 500 mile trip @ 2mi/kWh with each leg being a jump between EA chargers.

I will either learn to love or hate Walmarts.

 

[dbsb3233]

I had misread his TeslaFi report and made a correction to the charge times. 150kW charging sounded nice right up until Tesla and Porsche showed off 250kW+ charging.

I think you're right about the range of 150-160 miles per subsequent charge. 45mins for each session just becomes unbearably long after a couple of stops if you indeed have to do long stretches. A better route planner suggests four 22min stops for my 500 mile trip @ 2mi/kWh with each leg being a jump between EA chargers.

I will either learn to love or hate Walmarts.

I think at the moment it's just some long-range versions of the Tesla 3 that can charge at 250 kW (I assume because of their newest batteries). Future BEVs will probably get there in a few years, but sadly the Mach-e won't, at least initially.

One article I read says 250 kW jacks the M3 charging rate up to 12 mi/kWh (as versus ~5 at 150 kW).
While that's a big improvement, honestly I still don't think I'd use it for an 800 mile trip. 6 stops is still just too many, especially since a few of them are likely to take me further off the direct route and add miles/waste time. But it would make a 2-stop trip a lot more palatable. Two stops would be about a 500 mile max @ 75 MPH. (With max legs of 200/160/160)

 

[phila]

Im assuming the MachE will be able to charge at higher rates over time via software updates but certainly not at the 250kW level. IPace is now able to charge a little over 100kW which went up from the around 75kW when i received mine and also an additional 8% range has been unlocked but this one needs to be done by a dealer still. Audi eTron is also unlocking more range I read somewhere. But that just means maybe now i will get closer to the stated 292miles of range in the IPace as I have never been close to that number on my dashboard.
Here is a great site which delivers some real numbers around most things and has a bunch of EVs including upcoming models:
https://ev-database.org/imp/car/1097/Jaguar-I-Pace

 

[Billyk24]

I have driven 830-850 miles in a day 2-3x times a year for about 30 years-Pennsylvania to northern Wisconsin. Usually drive in 90 minutes to 150 sessions before needing to get out and walk. stretch and other for 20-30 minutes as I normally take my large Poodle with me. However, I have the flexibility to stop where I want and at this time frame, a BEV would requiring stopping at certain locations. and not necessarily on the interstate/highway. More fast charging stations are needed in Michigan, the UP of Michigan and northern Wisconsin.

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