Very slow DC charging

[alokmenghrajani]

Got my Mach-E (ER AWD) in August 2021. Always charged it at home until a few weeks ago, when we went on our first road trip. Discovered that the DC charging is very slow. So I have been trying different chargers, with different charge levels and logging everything. Here is what I have so far:
- 1/14/2022, charged at ~27kW from 57% to 80% on a charger rated 50kW.
- 1/14/2022, failed to DC charge (got 5 rings). Had to spend ~3h slow charging.
- 1/16/2022, failed to DC charge at first (got 5 rings). Called Ionity and they activated the charger remotely and the car charged. I failed to log how much+how quickly the car charged.
- 1/20/2022, charged at ~24kW from 74% to 80% on a different charger rated 150kW. Next to me, a Tesla was charging at 62kW.
- 1/28/2022, charged at ~36kW from 57% to 74% on the same charger as above with no other cars plugged-in.
- 2/1/2022, charged at ~28kW from 59% to 66% on a different charger rated 160kW. Next to me, another Tesla was charging at 90kW.

Contacted my Ford dealership, they said there are software updates available for my car (in-car screen doesn't show any updates) but they want to wait for the following update for some reason. Wasn't very satisfied by their response.

Anyone else seeing slow DC charging speeds way off from the advertised 150kW?

AC charging at home seems to work fine, I calculated ~11kW.

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[timbop]

Yes, in very cold weather the electrolyte gets less viscous and thus can't charge as quickly as it should. Currently the Mach-E doesn't warm up the battery before DCFC, but Ford is aware of the issue and is supposedly coming up with a software fix so that if you put a charger in the NAV it will warm up the battery before you get there like Tesla does.

 

[bshaw]

Got my Mach-E (ER AWD) in August 2021. Always charged it at home until a few weeks ago, when we went on our first road trip. Discovered that the DC charging is very slow.

Anyone else seeing slow DC charging speeds way off from the advertised 150kW?

AC charging at home seems to work fine, I calculated ~11kW.

Mine works about exactly as you describe.
I exclusively charge at home on 40A L2.

The times I have stopped at the EA chargers in NH and Maine, the car would never pull more than about 30kW on either a 150kW or 350kW station. First time was in July and I was at 70% SOC before starting the charge. More recently, I was at about 60% SOC and been driving for more than an hour. The air temp was 43 deg F, so cooler but still above freezing. And then on the same day, I later stopped at the EVGo in our town and was getting 43kW from a 50kW station, which seems about right.

For the EA stops, I was the only one there and I switched to different stations to see if the one I picked was malfunctioning. I even called EA support and asked them to reset the charger. The phone service rep said he could do that, but it wasn’t likely to improve anything. The only other datapoint is that the EA stations were in free holiday weekend mode, so I wasn’t charged. I don’t know if they de-rate the power output when it’s free, but that’s the only thing I can think of.
I left after about 10-15 min because I didn’t need additional charge to get home, but if I was on a longer road trip, being stuck at 30kW would be pretty miserable.

 

[RickMachE]

No, EA doesn't lower charging speeds when free.

DC chargers do charge slower when the batteries are cold; however, no idea if that affected either of you. There is no warming of the battery pre-charge for the Mach-E as of now (although supposedly they are working on it), which is a huge miss, and a nobrainer. If you set a charger as your destination, and it's cold, then warm the battery before you arrive.

 

[hybrid2bev]

Got my Mach-E (ER AWD) in August 2021. Always charged it at home until a few weeks ago, when we went on our first road trip. Discovered that the DC charging is very slow. So I have been trying different chargers, with different charge levels and logging everything. Here is what I have so far:
- 1/14/2022, charged at ~27kW from 57% to 80% on a charger rated 50kW.
- 1/14/2022, failed to DC charge (got 5 rings). Had to spend ~3h slow charging.
- 1/16/2022, failed to DC charge at first (got 5 rings). Called Ionity and they activated the charger remotely and the car charged. I failed to log how much+how quickly the car charged.
- 1/20/2022, charged at ~24kW from 74% to 80% on a different charger rated 150kW. Next to me, a Tesla was charging at 62kW.
- 1/28/2022, charged at ~36kW from 57% to 74% on the same charger as above with no other cars plugged-in.
- 2/1/2022, charged at ~28kW from 59% to 66% on a different charger rated 160kW. Next to me, another Tesla was charging at 90kW.

Contacted my Ford dealership, they said there are software updates available for my car (in-car screen doesn't show any updates) but they want to wait for the following update for some reason. Wasn't very satisfied by their response.

Anyone else seeing slow DC charging speeds way off from the advertised 150kW?

AC charging at home seems to work fine, I calculated ~11kW.

Because you got amber rings while charging, that indicates to me that there is a software issue too.

I would agree with others that charging when it's cold outside can slow down the speed until the battery heats up. Ford recommends turning off the HVAC for the first 10 minutes of a DC charging session when it's cold outside.

Maybe related to this TSB?

 

[DevSecOps]

Contacted my Ford dealership, they said there are software updates available for my car (in-car screen doesn't show any updates) but they want to wait for the following update for some reason. Wasn't very satisfied by their response.

Anyone else seeing slow DC charging speeds way off from the advertised 150kW?

AC charging at home seems to work fine, I calculated ~11kW.

So you have a bit to unpack here. I think you can safely ignore 90% of the "cold mongering" going on. While the cold has impact on charging rates, you said that this was on a roadtrip and therefore the battery is not dead cold when you are hitting the DCFC. Additionally, the car warms up the battery quickly and attempts to maintain it at about 93-95F.

Yes, your Job2 vehicles has updates available. Those updates are well discussed in this thread. Based on our testing Ford has actually reduced our max charge rate in these updates. So you should be getting more pre-update. The updates address charging curves above 80% SOC. In your case this doesn't apply. So the updates available aren't likely to help you, yet you never know if they have something else baked in them to fix issues. Towards the end of the aforementioned thread we discuss climate and it's impact on charging which is dispelled by many of us. What does matter is the temp of the battery, not the ambient, even then based on the below image my highest charge rates were at my lowest battery temp.

Your current temps are in the 40s for the most part and here's a chart of charging that I did at 51F outside. The 10ish or so degree difference will not cause the issue described. I would have the vehicle looked at for possible issues with the onboard charging modules. It could be that you have a defective OBCC. There is an OBCC update that was just released over the weekend, which is discussed here. While we don't yet know what it does, it could be a fix for some vehicles at DCFC but no one can confirm that at this point.

Based on your numbers you should have been in the 60-80kW range and you're well, well under that, which doesn't seem normal. Coupled with the numerous charge faults, I would bring it in.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

So you have a bit to unpack here. I think you can safely ignore 90% of the "cold mongering" going on. While the cold has impact on charging rates, you said that this was on a roadtrip and therefore the battery is not dead cold when you are hitting the DCFC. Additionally, the car warms up the battery quickly and attempts to maintain it at about 93-95F.

Yes, your Job2 vehicles has updates available. Those updates are well discussed in this thread. Based on our testing Ford has actually reduced our max charge rate in these updates. So you should be getting more pre-update. The updates address charging curves above 80% SOC. In your case this doesn't apply. So the updates available aren't likely to help you, yet you never know if they have something else baked in them to fix issues. Towards the end of the aforementioned thread we discuss climate and it's impact on charging which is dispelled by many of us. What does matter is the temp of the battery, not the ambient, even then based on the below image my highest charge rates were at my lowest battery temp.

Your current temps are in the 40s for the most part and here's a chart of charging that I did at 51F outside. The 10ish or so degree difference will not cause the issue described. I would have the vehicle looked at for possible issues with the onboard charging modules. It could be that you have a defective OBCC. There is an OBCC update that was just released over the weekend, which is discussed here. While we don't yet know what it does, it could be a fix for some vehicles at DCFC but no one can confirm that at this point.

Based on your numbers you should have been in the 60-80kW range and you're well, well under that, which doesn't seem normal. Coupled with the numerous charge faults, I would bring it in.

I would disagree with you. I tried my first 150kw DCFC last week, 45F outside temp, had been driving around for an hour or so before that. I plugged in my OBD2. Started out at 43kw charge rate, after 20 min or so had only increased to 53kw. Battery heater was running but it didn’t heat up very fast, was maybe around 60-65F when I gave up and left. I was very surprised it didn’t heat the battery quicker, especially because 45F outdoor temp isn’t that cold.

 

[DevSecOps]

I would disagree with you. I tried my first 150kw DCFC last week, 45F outside temp, had been driving around for an hour or so before that. I plugged in my OBD2. Started out at 43kw charge rate, after 20 min or so had only increased to 53kw. Battery heater was running but it didn’t heat up very fast, was maybe around 60-65F when I gave up and left. I was very surprised it didn’t heat the battery quicker, especially because 45F outdoor temp isn’t that cold.

Not to be rude, but unless you are recording data from the car then your comments are purely speculative. I've been to faulty DCFCs that just don't work correctly or put out what they should. There's other variables and someone in 40-50 degree weather should not be getting 25 kw delivered at 57% SOC. The charge rate is also determined by your SOC, so someone saying I only got 14kW delivered at 90% SOC, is a valid and expected result.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

Not to be rude, but unless you are recording data from the car then your comments are purely speculative. I've been to faulty DCFCs that just don't work correctly or put out what they should. There's other variables and someone in 40-50 degree weather should not be getting 25 kw delivered. The charge rate is also determined by your SOC, so someone saying I only got 14kW delivered at 90% SOC, is a valid and expected result.

It was working fine. I design DCFCs for a living so I know what I’m doing. It was just my first time w the MME. I watched the data feed the whole time. The HVB temp increased very slowly, and the charge rate followed the HVB temp. I am sure after an hour it would have been going nice and fast…

 

[DevSecOps]

It was working fine. I design DCFCs for a living so I know what I’m doing. It was just my first time w the MME. I watched the data feed the whole time. The HVB temp increased very slowly, and the charge rate followed the HVB temp. I am sure after an hour it would have been going nice and fast…

I am attaching my data which supports my statements so you can look it over if you wish. This was at 51F which is shown in the below image at a 70% SOC which is not going to give extreme numbers. Even then I'm charging at 68kWs delivered, which is expected at this SOC. The only time you'll see high kW over 100 being delivered is in the sub 30ish% SOC.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

I am attaching my data which supports my statements so you can look it over if you wish. This was at 51F which is shown in the below image at a 70% SOC which is not going to give extreme numbers. Even then I'm charging at 68kWs delivered, which is expected at this SOC. The only time you'll see high kW over 100 being delivered is in the sub 30ish% SOC.

I’m pretty sure we agree with each other. The point I was trying to make wasn’t that the car should immediately jump to 100+Kw. My point was that yes, it does heat the battery when you plug in, but in my opinion that heating happens too slowly to make much of a difference. By the time it’s warm enough to give you a decent charge rate you’ve already been there for 20-30 minutes. All the more reason we need a battery pre-heating update.

 

[DevSecOps]

I’m pretty sure we agree with each other. The point I was trying to make wasn’t that the car should immediately jump to 100+Kw. My point was that yes, it does heat the battery when you plug in, but in my opinion that heating happens too slowly to make much of a difference. By the time it’s warm enough to give you a decent charge rate you’ve already been there for 20-30 minutes. All the more reason we need a battery pre-heating update.

In that the temperature of the battery matters yes I think to an extent it does. However my original comment was regarding ambient temps and dispelling the comments made previous to mine that on a roadtrip, which naturally keeps the battery somewhat warm, and being that the outdoor temps are mildly cold, not sub-0, receiving 20ish kW at 57% SOC is not correct and shouldn't be attributed to "it's cold outside".

Also if you look at my data in the original post my highest peak kW delivery was when the battery was at it's coldest temp of 58F. There's a post here where Ben was able to get his temps up before hitting a DCFC and there was very little to no difference in the data between my charge and his. So I think the verdict on battery temp is still out, but I suppose it could matter.

 

[benk016]

In that the temperature of the battery matters yes I think to an extent it does. However my original comment was regarding ambient temps and dispelling the comments made previous to mine that on a roadtrip, which naturally keeps the battery somewhat warm, and being that the outdoor temps are mildly cold, not sub-0, receiving 20ish kW at 57% SOC is not correct and shouldn't be attributed to "it's cold outside".

Also if you look at my data in the original post my highest peak kW delivery was when the battery was at it's coldest temp of 58F. There's a post here where Ben was able to get his temps up before hitting a DCFC and there was very little to no difference in the data between my charge and his. So I think the verdict on battery temp is still out, but I suppose it could matter.

The main difference between having the battery over 80f and under 80f is just the small burst of full speed charging. When my battery was cold, it jumped to 123kw but went back down until the battery was over 80f, then went back to 123kw.

The charge where my battery started over 80f I held that 123kw for the full time it allows.

Of course that could have been something else causing that dip on the colder battery day and it just lined up with the temps since we don't really know what all goes into what the car requests.

 

[alokmenghrajani]

Thanks for all your responses. I'm taking the car to get the updates on Monday. I'll then test the car on a DC charger and post an update.

The weather here has been in the 10C/50F and I always drive my car at least 20-30 minutes before trying to fast charge, so I doubt the temperature explains the slow charging speed.

noob question: how do y'all get these charging graphs?

 

[Zassi]

Thanks for all your responses. I'm taking the car to get the updates on Monday. I'll then test the car on a DC charger and post an update.

The weather here has been in the 10C/50F and I always drive my car at least 20-30 minutes before trying to fast charge, so I doubt the temperature explains the slow charging speed.

noob question: how do y'all get these charging graphs?

Using an obd-scanner, no other way to do it as far as I understand it.

And on the topic of fast charging I’ve noticed that atleast the SR is notoriously bad at receiving fast charging speeds. After trying out with about 10 different chargers I’ve notices that best bang for euros is with a 50kw charger because here in Finland those are usually paid by kwh’s when those that supposedly charge 100 or more are paid by a minute no mater what you get out of it…

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