Way too DANGEROUS!

[JDrazMME]

CUSTOMER STATES WARING FOR ONE PEDAL PERFORMANCE MESSAGE
COMES ON WHILE DRIVING AND VEHICLE GOES BACK TO NORMAL
BRAKING SEE FAULT CODES IN SYSTEM
PERFORM DIAGNOSIS AND CHECK FOR CODES FOUND CODES STORED FOR
LOSS OF COMMUNICATION WITH ABS MODULE AND LOSS OFF
COMMUNICATION WITH IMAGE PROCESSING MODULE CONTACTED FORD
TECH HOTLINE FOR ASSISTANCE
COMMUNICATION RECEIVED FROM FORD TECH HOTLINE AS FOLLOWS,
ENGINEERING IS AWARE OF THIS SOFTWARE ISSUE AFTER PERFORMING
RECENT SOFTWARE UPDATES INCLUDED IN HVBJB RECALL. CONCERN IS
STILL BEING ADDRESSED WITH THE FACTORY ENGINEERING DEPT

I had a series of warnings like this approximately 6 weeks after the HVJB recall. I didn't have any performance issues, just a lot of warnings and the dreaded 'stop safely now" red warning. Took it back to the dealer and they did a series of checks and software updates. Been OK since (about a month)

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[Fixbear]

Imagine driving down the road. You pull off the accelerator on your Mach E to slow down and eventually brake. It works. As you creep closer to the stopped car in front of you, your mach e continues to slow until OUT OF NOWHERE your one-pedal regen braking fails and your mach e -- at a time when it should be stopping -- lurches foward, throwing you into whatever is in front of you! It's scary. And Ford NEEDS to fix this known issue immediately.

After I got the HVBJB recall last month, my mach e would randomly lose the ability to slow and brake using one-pedal regen. It's a terrifying experience thinking you are about to slow but suddenly you're going faster. luckily, it hasn't resulted in an accident like the one described above. But I dont feel safe having my family drive a car that doesn't stop the way it's supposed to. I took my vehicle into the dealer three times. After updating every available module, they escalated the matter to Ford national techs. As communicated to me by my dealer, ford is aware that the HVBJB recall causes one-pedal drive faults and they do not have a solution. Yet they are posting here about available goodwill "gifts" for those who go get the recall within a certain time. Is Ford encouraging Mach e owners to get the HVBJB recall knowing that it will result in an unsafe car with a whole other problem?

I had zero issues with this vehicle before this recall. I guess the honeymoon period is over. What can I do? The dealership said there is literally nothing they can do and Ford acknowledges this. @Ford Motor Company I just want this car to work as it should and did before the recall.

It's not the HVBJB recall. I haven't had that yet, but after having the charge port recall done last week, I've experienced it several times.

 

[Duncs]

It's not the HVBJB recall. I haven't had that yet, but after having the charge port recall done last week, I've experienced it several times.

I'm going by what the dealer said and what ford said, as communicated to me. But I'm sure there are other ways that this problem can be triggered.

 

[Phil-Springs]

I’ve noticed that when turning making a tight turn and if there is huge slope change , the regen breaking disappears for a moment. Feels a little scary, and it isn’t consistent. Seems to depend on exactly how the weight is distributed on each tire.

 

[Fixbear]

Adding my experience to this thread.....

I had my HVBJB recall serviced last week, and I have just had the 1PD fault twice in less than 30 miles.

Never had the 1PD fault previously since owning the car. To me the correlation between 1PD fault and HVBJB recall is just simply too strong.

My previous thread is here:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/1-pedal-drive-fault-after-hvbjb-replacement.35286/

It's the BCCM that causes it. Mine was reprogrammed on the 18th due to the 22B50 campaign. Has now had failed 1 pedal daily. Yesterday 3 times alone just going to BJ's and the market.
Driving usage is normally 2 nine-mile trips one way daily to my wife's mother and a weekly 17-mile one way trip to market.
I believe that they do reprogram the charge control module when they do a HVBJB as part of that campaign.

 

[Deleted User 981389]

The entire regen / physical braking system is "fly-by-wire" - it's all controlled by software. The brake pedal is basically a dimmer switch.

Software will fix it, and I'm sure Ford is taking it seriously.

At least there is an easy workaround for now, but drivers need to be aware sooner rather than later.

Is it though? There's still a physical connection from the pedal to the brake booster. Now I can't see the internal workings and I'm not willing to take mine apart but I would assume that there is still a physical "master cylinder" with electric assist which also allows for electric override. I could be wrong and hopefully someone will point that out. My question is if you lose power to this unit would it behave like manual non power assist brakes? All the brakes aside form the parking brake are still hydraulic.

 

[ThatGuyLando]

This has also been a concern regarding the "drive mode not available" issue where the car just defaults to engage mode.

When you go from Unbridled to Engage the car stop VERY differently, as unbridled slows down more aggressively, even at highway speeds, as compared to engage or whisper.

I don't think they'll worry about fixing any of these until there's an accident and they are forced to respond.

 

[tfitzgex]

Interesting, they will probably provide a fix as soon as BC 1.4 rolls out. ?

Soon (tm)

 

[QueasyLand]

It's not the HVBJB recall. I haven't had that yet, but after having the charge port recall done last week, I've experienced it several times.

My charge port was fixed at the same time as the HVBJB recall so this is definitely possible.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Is it though? There's still a physical connection from the pedal to the brake booster. Now I can't see the internal workings and I'm not willing to take mine apart but I would assume that there is still a physical "master cylinder" with electric assist which also allows for electric override. I could be wrong and hopefully someone will point that out. My question is if you lose power to this unit would it behave like manual non power assist brakes? All the brakes aside form the parking brake are still hydraulic.

Yes, there is mechanical override at the end of the stroke.

 

[cryptk]

I'm going by what the dealer said and what ford said, as communicated to me. But I'm sure there are other ways that this problem can be triggered.

I think you're interpreting what the dealer said as it being the HVBJB replacement that is causing this. That's not strictly correct. What that dealer statement says is that the software updates that were done as part of the replacement are what's causing it.

It just so happens that as part of the recall, they are directing dealers to replace the HVBJB as well as perform several software updates, and it's one of those software updates that is causing the issue.

 

[bbulkow]

Dagnabbit.

Again, in this thread, a few people confuse 1PD with EV functionality.

1PD is not about engaging regen.

It's just not like that.

ICE cars, hydrogen cars, hybrid cars without regen, can all implement 1PD.

1PD can be implemented in any drive-by-wire vehicle.

Some of the braking *function* is moved to the accelerator pedal.

That's *ALL* that's happening.

In an EV, there happen to be two systems to provide braking: the physical brakes, and the motor.

Which system provides how much braking is unknown to you - unless you enable the power meter. That will tell you what subsystem the drive-by-wire is using to provide braking at any given moment.

If you do turn on the power meter (which I continue to believe is crucial UX and Ford should do by default, like Tesla), you'll see the physical brakes sometimes engage when you "feather" the accelerator in 1PD. You'll also see 100% regen when using the brake pedal even in 2PD mode.

The amount of regen that is available is complex. It's a function of state of charge, how many motors you have (AWD should have more regen on tap than RWD), temperature, maybe other things (traction control? regen can't be applied independently to the right and left side?). The driver does not have direct control of applying regen vs physical brakes. Nor should we, the system is too complex.

Sorry, I realize most people reading this thread understand, but some people seem not to, and it's a hot button. Carry on.

 

[bbulkow]

Yeah it's a tough one. I don't find 1 pedal to be strong enough that I could imagine it putting me at risk if it didn't work, I am usually several car lengths away before I let it do full regen, or if I have a lot of time (coming up to a red light) I don't fully let off the accel to modulate the 1 pedal and coast down slowly. In either scenario if 1 pedal just didn't work, I have so much buffer to change to the brake that it would just be an annoyance, not even in the realm of dangerous.

....

But as with all driver assistance features, auto hold or adaptive cruise or even 1 pedal, you as the driver need to always be ready to take over, and you should be leaving room for if that system acts in a way it shouldn't. Easier said than done in all cases, but it's a good lesson for all of us as we rely more and more on these systems. All that said, Ford should find out what the cause is and soon, I just don't know how this falls into the realm of being overly dangerous with how long the travel distance is to come to a stop even with full regen.

I hear your viewpoint, and it hinges on whether 1PD is assistive, or a core feature.

TL;DR : I don't consider 1PD assistive, thus I take this more seriously.

Let's imagine the following case: say there was a flaw where the car would switch between Whisper, Engage, and Unbridled. "Failure in Whisper mode", and pop you into Engage. Let's say Engage is the "default" and the car might also pop you from Unbridled to Engage from time to time too.

In each case, the throttle and brake settings would behave unexpectedly for a moment. If you were in whisper with a little accelerator applied, and it flipped to another setting, the car would treat the same pedal input as a much higher value, and increase acceleration. Maybe a little, maybe a lot.

I would hope we would agree that's a safety flaw and unexpected. The car's driving parameters changed instantaneously and unexpectedly. While I could drive with even more buffer, I would probably consider selling the car.

I don't consider 1PD to be assistive in the same way as lane keep, bluecruise, auto-follow, but I can imagine some would, because it's marketed as a new feature. In contrast, lane keep depends on cameras and sensing and the outside state of the world (fog, leaves, rain). I always take my assistive settings knowing they may fail at any time - because outside sensors and conditions. I expect those system's potential failures are clear to any driver, since they sense the outside world. Given that my personal assistive systems are flakey and appear to fail because of internal connection issues (corrupted packets on internal wiring), I heap extra salt, and am entirely unhappy about the lack of reliability of those systems - and Ford / Dealer saying the fault is outside sensors when clearly the codes point to bad wiring or software - but agree it's in a different safety category.

1PD is not like that. There are no outside sensors involved. I have no reason to believe the "1PD system" will "fail" - because I would not expect there to be a 1PD system. 1PD should be a different map of the pedals. Just like there should not be a "whisper system" that could "fail".

Yet, clearly, there is some data path that is changing between 1PD and 2PD, and that data path has potential faults. I could speculate about that path and systems change, but it would only be speculation. I would also hope in the next major change to those systems, the different data paths and different systems involvements would be eliminated ("simplified").

With this news, I will certainly consider disengaging 1PD.

 

[LF-X]

I had it once that it decelerated close to a stop, taking the foot from the pedal expecting OPD to do the rest, but the car made a "jump" forward instead.

This was while approaching a pedestrian crossing with people approaching it. A bit frightening indeed.

I was not able to reproduce this a 2nd time since then.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Is it though? There's still a physical connection from the pedal to the brake booster. Now I can't see the internal workings and I'm not willing to take mine apart but I would assume that there is still a physical "master cylinder" with electric assist which also allows for electric override. I could be wrong and hopefully someone will point that out. My question is if you lose power to this unit would it behave like manual non power assist brakes? All the brakes aside form the parking brake are still hydraulic.

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