Range anxiety after two days of driving

[timbop]

Hi Everyone....I have a couple general responses to all as I am contemplating buying a MME and I have read everything I could find on range testing......I live outside of Philly so that Winter can be a mixed bag.

There is a new video by these guys that test drive cars called "The Smoking Gun". The video showed up maybe 10 days ago. Just google videos for Mustang Mach E range testing. In any event this guy was in California. I am assuming the drive occurred in the last couple of months, perhaps late Fall. He went up the coast from L.A. to Santa Barbara. He put the climate control on at 71 degrees and cruise at 73 mph. He did the 405 and the 101 going up and did more local traffic going home. In any event he got 255 miles of range. I myself am more of a hyper miler from my VW TDI days so I probably would have done like 66 or 67 mph and gotten the 270.

The other point I wanted to make was he had been driving the car locally for like 6 days and this was his first road trip so when he started it said 232 miles of range. After like 45 minutes of driving his estimated range went up to close to 270 miles. Initially he was getting like 8 miles of range for every 10 miles driven but it did start to change once he was on the road for a while. Its also funny how I decided against the Kona EV because there was no heat pump on US versions and there was a heat pump on Canda built cars. Finally of note is that Edmunds got 304 miles of range vs. Tesla Model Y with 263 miles on their range test.

Alex on Autos who is a very legit tester on one short test in flat driving got almost 3.9 kWh on the MME but of course it was California on a nice weather day. As Tesla added range with over the air updates perhaps Ford will do the same in the future.

Electrek did a test in winter weather with the Mach E, and went 180 miles with the guess-o-meter saying they had 40 miles left in the battery. So they would have gotten 220 - 230 in the first edition they used (270 mi rated range). They have a model Y, and said the MME gets about the same range as a MY.

Here's my original post with the relevant excerpt in it: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/cold-weather-range-numbers.3196/#post-101063

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[MidwestElectric]

Just an update. Preconditioned car for departure today. Got 2.4 miles/kWh over 25 miles, no braking. 3 deg outside.

Of note - Dealer texted me to reset driving history. Range with 100% charge went from 139 to 235 immediately. Guess driving history has a big role as well.

 

[Jako607]

I have a way to avoid all the cold weather debating in this thread... let's only allow people from here in California to share their range experiences ?

 

[mr_raider]

2017. 58000km. Very nice car. Best I owned. A bit lacking in acceleration but superlative quality and trouble free. Buy 2 tanks of gas a year, maybe.

 

[Leonard Rae]

Unrelated topic ... love your license plate. I actually considered getting that one (it was still available .. but clearly not now) at the time. I also thought about '88 KWH' (also available).

In the end I went for 'EV PONY' (someone already had 'E PONY' - that was my first choice).

Same problem here, had 5 choices and ended up with " E MUSTG" and I did my application in Nov/2020. The best one in my opinion was my #1 pick MACH E already gone but I'm happy, just need my car to arrive!

 

[guyofthesky]

I think the display is useful because it's a decent guess, but people are unfamiliar with the tech. Yes, -10 will SEVERELY limit your range, and there's no EV in the world that wouldn't apply to, it's just the nature of Li Ion batteries. Further, the GOM is an algorithm that needs data input to produce output. Limited data input (which would happen when the car is very new) will create iffy output. Again, that's just the nature of algoriths... garbage in, garbage out.

We're getting brand new EV cars delivered in the winter time (and an unseasonal cold snap at that in much of the Midwest and Northeast parts of the USA and Canada). It would be weird if the range estimates WEREN'T wonky under the circumstances.

I don't disagree that cold affects the Li batteries, of course, but it is also to remember that the air is MUCH denser at -10F than it is at 60F. It's a big difference, and it affects all vehicles, not just BEVs.

 

[guyofthesky]

Wow that sucks! Thats what happens when they decide to not put heat pump! Lmfao! Ford dropped the ball!

Actually, heat pumps don't help that much in extreme cold. They improve efficiency in moderately cold weather, but in this kind of extreme, they don't do much. fwiw.

 

[guyofthesky]

I'm enjoying this talk on the frigid conditions in the lower 48. We are forecasting -33F the next two nights. Sounds like I'll be lucky to have the range to get to the end of the driveway in my ER (when I get it).

Actually, I'm planning on at least a 50% drop in range - and that is with a heated garage at home and a Grizzl-E EVSE at work. FWIW, at -30 to -50 my ICE vehicle typically loses 1/3 to 1/2 it's normal range - partially from incomplete engine combustion and partially from the need to remote start the car for 10 minutes at work (0 mpg) in order to have the engine put out enough heat to warm the cabin before driving home.

Not boasting, just saying EVs aren't unique for their poor performance in extreme cold. Expect it, plan for it, and don't lose sleep over it.

I agree with all of that. But it is also that cold air is MUCH denser than warm air. Difference between 50F and -10F is 13%.

 

[guyofthesky]

Literally this very forum just last month. Not that I expect you to read or acknowledge it.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...are-and-diy-maintenance-point.2577/post-81787

thanks for posting that link. very interesting.

 

[guyofthesky]

Part of it must be conditioning in winter, along with garage storage. Summer/spring/fall, 270 miles+, not sure but it is. I usually keep it fully charged (now at 90%, temporarily). Also, Colorado is a drier climate and the winters are not so severe (single digit and below are rare, 20 degrees are more the normal in winter for lows, 30-50 degrees for highs) and a good deal of passive solar daytime (310+ days of sunshine/year). No long trips, just local everyday driving.

How fast do each of you drive? That can make a big difference.

 

[trutolife27]

Well, I Can tell you this. The model y with the heat pump is going to get tested this Saturday.
We will see how good that heat pump does in temps below 20 degrees.

So far my sister's model y with the heat pump has been giving her about 14 more miles of the range above 32 degrees. suppose to be around 5 degrees this weekend gonna put it to the test.

I mean with a heat pump and all the less weight and aero of the model y it is supposed to get 56 miles more of range over the mache. Wouldn't it be crazy if the model y doesn't get that much range? what then? all you but the model y gets more range. Crow eating? The two have never been tested side by side at the same time speeds and there are many leaks showing it's going to be very close on the range.

So say the model y ends up only getting 20 miles more range. Your really going to buy a catfish car to be able to drive 20 more miles? lol. I will take looks over 20 miles all day long. Besides not like ford has room to boost the range a little if they like.

Be careful boosting about the model y range until you see the test. Somehow I know that 56 miles more of range is not there, But hey who am I, or what do I know. Not like I have driven both for a while now.




I might try to see if I can get the mache and model y and test the 100% to 0%. The hard part is traffic and time of day having the cars we will see.

 

[ay221]

This is one of the reasons I will avoid the PE version. Just too low. Then if you take into account battery degradation in a few years will make things worse.

 

[woody]

How fast do each of you drive? That can make a big difference.

I do punch it to start. Otherwise, conservative. Mostly short trips. A few 10-20 miles(one way). As of late, not many trips over 20 miles. 75mph max., mostly 65mph.

 

[guyofthesky]

Yes. However, for those that are new to BEVs....
Cold weather has a MUCH greater affect on range then hot weather. That is one of the things that caught me by surprise when I started driving a BEV. It can be 120 degrees out and the A/C blows ice cold......way better than an ICE vehicle and it doesn't really hurt range that much at all. Maybe 10% or less?

Some of that is because hot air is much less dense than cold air...

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