They should post cold weather mileage and hot weather mileage

[dml105]

I don't think it is reasonable to expect it to be part of their marketing that is designed to sell the car.

If you view it as marketing, there's no reason to publish hot weather range even - EV ranges are almost uniformly less than equivalent ICE ranges.

It's about publishing basic important stats: how efficient is this car when it's hot, how efficient is this car when it's cold.

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[Mach1E]

I agree with this but I also think it will happen naturally. As more people own BEVs, more people will learn about the limitations and it will become common knowledge, just like ICE limitations are common knowledge.

For example, when my non BEV owning friends ask me about range I tell them it is worse in winter and worse on the highway. ICE owners are becoming aware and the more we talk, the more general awareness grows.

Is it the car manufacturers' responsibility to tell everyone about what is bad about their products? Maybe, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect it to be part of their marketing that is designed to sell the car.

Oh I definitely wouldn’t expect them to naturally market all the “bad stuff.”

This would likely have to be forced on them (kinda like the estimated mileage is now).

It may also be good long term. If they’re forced to show a worst case scenario for mileage in the cold, they’ll be incentivized to come up with new technology to combat it.

 

[Maquis]

Winter range degradation actually IS an unheard of phenomenon…….. until this winter in the Mach E world.

If you came from a Tesla, it’s old news. If you came from an ICE (like most Mach E buyers), it’s brand new info.

Even if you “did your research,” this is something that could have been missed very easily.

How I research cars:

level 1:
Go to dealers, look at them, talk to salespeople, test drive, read the window sticker. Info on cold weather range? Nonexistent.

Level 2:
Go online, read reviews from magazines, watch YouTube reviewers. Info on cold weather range? Still nonexistent.

Level 3:
Go online, join a forum. Read threads and post questions. Last summer when my car was being built, info on cold weather range? Nonexistent.


Now, during winter, for anyone one this forum, it’s hard to miss a cold weather range info. But you have to do a pretty deep dive to find the info. Personally, it should be noted in both my “level 1 and 2” research examples above.

And if you don’t know it’s a problem, it’s not like you’re going to do a “Mach E cold weather range” google search.

Well, I’ve had my car for right at a year now. I’ve experienced temperatures from just below zero to over 100F. According to the GOM, my range has varied from about 320 to as low as 170. This wasn’t unexpected to me. Maybe I’m freakishly lucky to have been able find the information required to set my expectations.

Before I bought my house, I knew it’s floodplain status and earthquake probability. 90% of my neighbors have no idea on either because (at that time) there were no disclosure requirements. I carry earthquake insurance, they don’t, and if we experience an earthquake, they’ll all cry “nobody told me we could have an earthquake.”

Look, we’re not going to agree on this, and that’s fine. This discussion would be a lot more fun over an adult beverage! ?
Cheers!

 

[phidauex]

I think it is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. “Buyer beware” only benefits large companies, it is an odd stance to take as a consumer.

People need to do their research, but we should throw them a bone by expecting companies to provide accurate information. Having the range testing method account for a few temp scenarios is a good idea.

All the equipment on the bulk electrical system is tested to tons of standards. When we buy million dollar generator step up transformers they have pages of test results that the industry has agreed to, and it includes, you guessed it, performance at a range of temperatures. Why should our cars be any different?

 

[RickMachE]

There's a lot of naivete here. There is information that an automobile manufacturer has to get blessed by someone like the EPA, and calculate things exactly the way it's specified. They design the automobile to maximize things that make them look better than the competition, such as MPGe.

It's very naive to think publishing cold weather range, if they could, wouldn't hugely impact a manufacturer's sales. The vast majority of car buyers aren't knowledgeable, and some aren't even intelligent. Many buy things without doing any research. The more info you give them, the less likely they are to make any decision (proven fact). Therefore, providing big window stickers with the same info on every model is done because:

 

[breeves002]

I'm late to this but I have been saying this for a long time now... With an EV 10 miles can be a big difference thats why real world range is so important to some people - especially at temperature and speed.

They need 6 range metrics... ICE vehicles get 3.
Summer city/highway/combined
Winter city/highway/combined

Of course it needs to be a standardized test and how you figure that out is up for question. This is my opinion because as people come to EVs some will have significantly better cold weather or highway performance than others. If it looks like a box its going to suck at 80mph. If it's sleek it won't.

A lot of this is self explanatory and expected but having a true way to compare in different conditions before purchase would be nice. That's why we watch so many videos of people testing...but if you're the first one to buy it you're the guinea pig.

 

[devmach-e]

Manufacturers are only allowed to advertise one range or MPG figure: the one derived from the EPA test. The same test that every vehicle has to go through, regardless of powertrain (diesel, gas, automatic, manual, electric, hydrogen fuel cell, natural gas, etc). There are a number of reasons for this, one being that it makes it easier to compare the operational cost of one car to another similar car so that the buyer can make an informed decision. Another reason is to avoid manufacturers fudging things with all sorts of caveats and special testing circumstances that only show their cars in the best light.

In order for EV manufacturers to advertise a winter versus summer range figure, the EPA will have to devise a summer/winter test that all cars (again, regardless of powertrain) will have to go through. And that will require new regulations from the EPA and will probably take several years to accomplish.

The EPA range (or MPG) figure is not meant to be a guarantee of the range/MPG that you get. People need to get over that misconception. Every window sticker has a disclaimer that says “Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive and maintain your vehicle.”

 

[Mach1E]

Manufacturers are only allowed to advertise one range or MPG figure: the one derived from the EPA test. The same test that every vehicle has to go through, regardless of powertrain (diesel, gas, automatic, manual, electric, hydrogen fuel cell, natural gas, etc). There are a number of reasons for this, one being that it makes it easier to compare the operational cost of one car to another similar car so that the buyer can make an informed decision. Another reason is to avoid manufacturers fudging things with all sorts of caveats and special testing circumstances that only show their cars in the best light.

In order for EV manufacturers to advertise a winter versus summer range figure, the EPA will have to devise a summer/winter test that all cars (again, regardless of powertrain) will have to go through. And that will require new regulations from the EPA and will probably take several years to accomplish.

The EPA range (or MPG) figure is not meant to be a guarantee of the range/MPG that you get. People need to get over that misconception. Every window sticker has a disclaimer that says “Actual results will vary for many reasons, including driving conditions and how you drive and maintain your vehicle.”

Well if it’s going to take a few years to implement, they should get going! Especially as the world starts going electric.

 

[devmach-e]

Well if it’s going to take a few years to implement, they should get going! Especially as the world starts going electric.

Start lobbying your congressional representatives now to get the EPA to change things.

 

[andredj20020]

Iv owned a e car before, and no one tells you that the battery mileage will be drastically different, depending on the weather conditions. I wish there were 3 battery mileage posted one at 32 degrees another at 75 degrees and finally at 90 degrees

Couldn’t agree more! I think it’s intentional because sales would be directly impacted, who wants to go from 300 to 180.

 

[JSeis]

The biggest variables in winter are: How the owner stores the car and the driver’s “comfort perception” and thus their use of heat.

Those of us that have ICE vehicles on farms or stored in unheated garages, or boats.. have battery maintainers and we monitor them… otherwise an ice cold engine will have a tough time starting and particularly if it is naturally aspirated (think old updraft carbs). And starting an ICE engine to let it “warm up” blows mileage right out the exhaust.

My situation is ideal: garage stored, charge nightly to replace the daily 90+ and occasionally 150 miles driven, precondition, and drive conservatively on rural 2-lane. Layered clothing in typical PNW fashion cause rain, wind, ice, rare snow, and typical mid 30’s morning to mid 40’s afternoons. In 13,000 miles I’ve averaged 3.5 mi/KWh. A passenger would probably complain I ride slightly chill. My S.O. says “perfect”. But it’s how we roll. YRMV. ?? AWD Select SR.

 

[stryker]

it is my understa

The biggest variables in winter are: How the owner stores the car and the driver’s “comfort perception” and thus their use of heat.

Those of us that have ICE vehicles on farms or stored in unheated garages, or boats.. have battery maintainers and we monitor them… otherwise an ice cold engine will have a tough time starting and particularly if it is naturally aspirated (think old updraft carbs). And starting an ICE engine to let it “warm up” blows mileage right out the exhaust.

My situation is ideal: garage stored, charge nightly to replace the daily 90+ and occasionally 150 miles driven, precondition, and drive conservatively on rural 2-lane. Layered clothing in typical PNW fashion cause rain, wind, ice, rare snow, and typical mid 30’s morning to mid 40’s afternoons. In 13,000 miles I’ve averaged 3.5 mi/KWh. A passenger would probably complain I ride slightly chill. My S.O. says “perfect”. But it’s how we roll. YRMV. ?? AWD Select SR.

I don't think you should be cold or hot in your car to save miles. I had an E Golf that had a economy mode that when set nothing worked except the bare minimum

 

[JSeis]

It’s how we roll and IGGAS about BEV whiners. Early “adopters” are really test mice.. like it or not. I researched BEV’s for a year and we lucked on one that FIT OUR LIFESTYLE. It has the winter range and good for me. Some won’t be satisfied till they’ve 400+ miles of BEV winter range for $29,999. They can wait. Meanwhile I’m saving $4K in gas costs per year.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

I'm late to this but I have been saying this for a long time now... With an EV 10 miles can be a big difference thats why real world range is so important to some people - especially at temperature and speed.

They need 6 range metrics... ICE vehicles get 3.
Summer city/highway/combined
Winter city/highway/combined

Of course it needs to be a standardized test and how you figure that out is up for question. This is my opinion because as people come to EVs some will have significantly better cold weather or highway performance than others. If it looks like a box its going to suck at 80mph. If it's sleek it won't.

A lot of this is self explanatory and expected but having a true way to compare in different conditions before purchase would be nice. That's why we watch so many videos of people testing...but if you're the first one to buy it you're the guinea pig.

It’s really only a temporary problem. It would be a problem for ICE vehicles too if there was only a single gas station every 200 miles that had a 20% chance of not even working when you got there. When DCFCs are everywhere, range goes from being a problem to being an annoyance. Don’t get me wrong, it will still be an annoyance. Charging speeds are slow in winter, and adding an hour to a 3 hour trip isn’t great, but my anxiety would turn from “what will I do if I don’t make it to the next charger” to “did I download enough movies on my iPad to entertain me at the EA station.”

 

[Chuck]

Iv owned a e car before, and no one tells you that the battery mileage will be drastically different, depending on the weather conditions. I wish there were 3 battery mileage posted one at 32 degrees another at 75 degrees and finally at 90 degrees

But my mileage wasn't drastically different. It all depends on where you live. Should they customize it for every person on earth?

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