Serramonte Ford Mach-E Specialist Here

[Itsnotcory]

Hey @Gloff thanks for coming on the forum and discussing the vehicle and ordering process. I'm planning on picking up my Mach-E from your dealership in a week or so.

Regarding Ford Options, are you able to use the protected order date in Vincent to pull up interest rates and potential rebates? I've heard that discussed before and want to know more about potentially getting a better interest rate or cash rebate using the order date rather than sale date.
Thanks!

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[Gloff]

@Gloff I placed my Mach E CR1 order online on December 7th and got an email that same day from Ford at 8:35pm PST saying “Your order has been confirmed.”

Price increase kicked in December 8.

When I use the Ford tracker, it shows my order being confirmed December 8, and my window sticker shows the MSRP with the $2000 price increase. When I look under “My Reservations,” it shows my order date being December 7. However, it also shows the MSRP with the higher price.

Any insight on whether you think I have a shot at being price protected? My dealer (Ford Store Morgan Hill) has been pretty darn good when we bought an Explorer from them in January.

You have to ask FSMH what the order date is, if they accepted the order on Dec. 7, you would have price protection.

 

[Airmech0]

Hello all,

I picked up my Mach E three weeks ago and did not know about the PP. I almost forgot about the $750 but thought that was to soften the blow of the increase. Do you think there is any chance I could be owed the difference? Is the PP for the buyer or dealer? It seems like it is for the buyer since all the requirements for the same person ordering needs to take delivery. Does Ford track this and can I call to see if PP was applied for on my vehicle?

Thanks for everyone’s help.

 

[Gloff]

Hey @Gloff thanks for coming on the forum and discussing the vehicle and ordering process. I'm planning on picking up my Mach-E from your dealership in a week or so.

Regarding Ford Options, are you able to use the protected order date in Vincent to pull up interest rates and potential rebates? I've heard that discussed before and want to know more about potentially getting a better interest rate or cash rebate using the order date rather than sale date.
Thanks!

Yes we can use protected incentives. If you PM me your name/phone number so I can look it up, I can verify the programs available to you. I recently did a Mach-E deal with protected rebate, and it looks like the finance rate is not a protected incentive, but I'd have to double check.

 

[Gloff]

Hello all,

I picked up my Mach E three weeks ago and did not know about the PP. I almost forgot about the $750 but thought that was to soften the blow of the increase. Do you think there is any chance I could be owed the difference? Is the PP for the buyer or dealer? It seems like it is for the buyer since all the requirements for the same person ordering needs to take delivery. Does Ford track this and can I call to see if PP was applied for on my vehicle?

Thanks for everyone’s help.

It's yours, your dealer should be able to cut back a check to you for any PP you have.

 

[Gloff]

Quick one: I have a signed contract from my order placed in Oct. 2021 - duly signed by all parties. When the car finally arrives next month (crossing fingers) what happens when I go into the dealership?

My assumption is I drop off a cheque for the amount of downpayment I want to make (there is only financing available in Canada), they hand me the keys, and I quietly pull away from the lot.

Any chance for shenanigans? Again, I assume the signed paperwork guarantees the price we have already agreed to - the only variable is the amount of downpayment, thus affecting my monthly.

From where I sit this is a done deal.

Yes, that should be the case since you have a signed order. That's how we'd handle it. I don't believe price protection applies in Canada.

 

[Gloff]

I'm going to respond to this, but I'd like to keep this thread on us individually and the vehicle. This is constructive in nature, but I think merits it's own thread.

@Gloff I hope you try not to take the heat here personally. I'm sure most/all of it is not directed at you. Hopefully you understand that it is literally the only outlet most people have for their frustrations with the whole process. I think most people on the forum have little communication with their dealer and even less with Ford so imagine when they see someone who is willing to listen to them show up!

Totally understand. This isn't my first foray into the Forum world, and I received a lot of flack at B6G initially. I aim to hear, understand, and respond in a respectful manner that elevates our dealership's relationship with the enthusiast. I'm a car nerd by default, and this is a good outlet that, with the side benefit of bringing positive attention to our dealership.

With regards to price protection, I think it is pretty clear that any given Mach-e customer is in or thinks they will find themselves in one of three situations:

1. Dealerships plays dumb and pretends such a thing doesn't exist.
2. Dealership acknowledges that PP exists but for whatever reason does not give that difference in price to the customer at the time of sale and instead provides a promise that some money will show up at some vague time in the future.
3. Dealership reduces the amount the car costs at the time of sale by the PP amount.

From the customer's perspective, I see only these three options. All other behind-the-scenes details about why it is one situation vs another are pretty irrelevant for the customer even though it is very interesting for us here on the forums.

For most customers, it is transparent, they don't have a problem with either solution, and the "why" is, indeed, irrelevant. As you've said, the forum finds the "why" interesting and wants to discuss it. I find it helpful to have multiple points of view, and these discussions can potentially change how things are done.

I believe it is pretty clear that #1 is least desirable and #3 is most desirable with #2 somewhere in the middle (again from a customer's point of view).

In my opinion, if a dealership chooses to place a customer in situation #2 instead of #3, then they are making a conscious decision to make the customer's experience worse than it could be. Maybe that's ok for them, maybe that's not. On the other hand, if a dealer chooses to take on the additional risk to place customers in situation #3, they are providing a service to make the customer's experience better.

I agree with you. I also understand the internal business need to do it this way. Without getting too into the weeds, the number of moving parts in a vehicle transaction leaves a lot of room for human error. Like nearly all business decisions, it's a balance. Tesla lets their customers be beta testers, many of their clients openly welcome that, others wouldn't buy a Tesla because of it. To that end, Tesla likes to push the line and traditional manufacturers don't like the legal exposure that can bring, so they are slower to bring those things to market. Others value stone cold reliability over the latest tech or performance (see: Toyota). For the majority of our customers, option #2 is totally fine, so we roll with that as it gives us the least problems.

Personally, I think it is completely fair that customers would want to know from the dealership before even placing the order which situation they will be placed in. I think many customers, if given the choice, will want to go with a dealership that promises #3 and not #2.

Well, of course! The customer, nor us, got that ability before 12/8/2021.

By the way, if Ford's intention (and therefore all their dealerships' intention) is to compete with Telsa in customer service and sales experience, then the Tesla benchmark is even less hassle than #3. For example, why should there be a PP policy in the first place? When you place an order for an item on Amazon, and the price of that item changes between when the good arrives at the customer and when the order was placed, the customer doesn't have to know or care about that. It seems that Tesla has a similar experience with the car. As soon as the customer places the order and puts a deposit down, the price is fixed and that's the end of it.

While I don't know the entirety of the inner workings at FoMoCo, I suspect it's a problem with the way the systems were engineered. My guess is that they can change the pricing level internally, but can't differentiate by order date. When the VIN/Pricing is created, it's likely based on the date it's created, rather than the day it's ordered, so when Ford changes the price, they can't just change it on one, they have to change it on all vehicles created after that date. Price protection is likely a workaround to that. Like I've said before, the number of price changes and retail orders is unprecedented. If you use our store as a benchmark, we used to place maybe 25 retail customer orders per year. Now, before the order banks all closed, we were ordering that many two weeks. The system was not designed for this workload. Tesla's business model is fundamentally different, they have always been an order first manufacturer.

Whichever legacy automaker is able to most quickly change their entire outlook on the relationship with the customer to one where the question they ask themselves every minute of every day is "how can the experience be better for the customer?" will be the automaker that thrives in the post-Telsa world. It seems Ford is trying but I'm not convinced they will change fast enough especially if they have to convince each individual dealership to do what's best for the customer.

P.S. I don't think I believe that Ford will not do price changes frequently. They've already done it and they were on the verge of another Mach-e price increase at the same time as order books closed this year.

Ford has been in business 119 years, is the leading manufacturer of light trucks in the US, and has had the best selling vehicle in this country for a few decades. They know how to run a business. That's not to say there's no room for improvement, as there is. Your points are valid, and I agree that Ford is actively doing things to better the customer experience. Tesla tends to get put up on a pedestal as this shining example of how to do things, but they also spent a lot of time burning through investor cash. They get a lot of latitude that a legacy business doesn't get.

That said, I think the Model e split is a very savvy move that will lead to the flexibility and responsiveness you wish to see.

 

[Avelli]

I'm a car nerd by default

You came to the right place!

I see a lot of GT owners here who have a pretty cool automotive CV. What are your impressions of the overall Mach-E user base? What do you notice about the typical buyer of each trim level, in terms of needs and what type vehicles they are moving from?

 

[Gloff]

You came to the right place!

I see a lot of GT owners here who have a pretty cool automotive CV. What are your impressions of the overall Mach-E user base? What do you notice about the typical buyer of each trim level, in terms of needs and what type vehicles they are moving from?

It's a broad customer base. Early on we saw lots of EV early adopters, people coming from Early Model S, Focus EV, Nissan Leafs, handful of Volt/Bolt Customers.

Later on to now, we see a lot of customers coming out of Plug-In and traditional Hybrids. We're now also seeing a lot of the general public as this feels like a mainstream car, rather than a new piece of tech.

Lots of traditional car trade ins now. The average Mach-E customer is typically well educated (both in terms of education and vehicle research).

 

[csilvest]

You can also get X-Plan being a current Ford shareholder. Just need to produce paperwork (which Ford sends you) showing you’ve held F stock for the last 6 months.

This is the route I went to get my X Plan PIN. It's worked twice now (limited to one PIN every 12 months).

 

[jcdjcd]

No magic. I would reach out to the General Sales Manager or the General Manager to ask how they're handling it. The Ford rep should know what is going on and would be able to give them the steps to process your price protection. I would ask for the GSM or GM's email to correspond so you can keep it documented.

Sean -- thank you for your help. I ended up landing with a semi-coherent person who only played half as dumb as his predecessor. (I wish I'd ordered w/ Serramonte. I'm a couple hours south of the Bay Area and, nice guy I am, gave the biz to my hometown dealer. Sad trombone. I am certain my car will inspire a couple of friends' purchases -- mach e is awesome -- and will send them your way.)

My semi-coherent salesperson met his match in a semi-coherent me. We ended up accidentally doing a Ford Options plan with $0 balloon. He since sent me an updated contract with what seems like a super high residual despite my 2.7% APR. I'm curious: do dealers have ability to fudge those numbers?

 

[OrangerGT]

I'm going to respond to this, but I'd like to keep this thread on us individually and the vehicle. This is constructive in nature, but I think merits it's own thread.


Totally understand. This isn't my first foray into the Forum world, and I received a lot of flack at B6G initially. I aim to hear, understand, and respond in a respectful manner that elevates our dealership's relationship with the enthusiast. I'm a car nerd by default, and this is a good outlet that, with the side benefit of bringing positive attention to our dealership.



For most customers, it is transparent, they don't have a problem with either solution, and the "why" is, indeed, irrelevant. As you've said, the forum finds the "why" interesting and wants to discuss it. I find it helpful to have multiple points of view, and these discussions can potentially change how things are done.



I agree with you. I also understand the internal business need to do it this way. Without getting too into the weeds, the number of moving parts in a vehicle transaction leaves a lot of room for human error. Like nearly all business decisions, it's a balance. Tesla lets their customers be beta testers, many of their clients openly welcome that, others wouldn't buy a Tesla because of it. To that end, Tesla likes to push the line and traditional manufacturers don't like the legal exposure that can bring, so they are slower to bring those things to market. Others value stone cold reliability over the latest tech or performance (see: Toyota). For the majority of our customers, option #2 is totally fine, so we roll with that as it gives us the least problems.


Well, of course! The customer, nor us, got that ability before 12/8/2021.


While I don't know the entirety of the inner workings at FoMoCo, I suspect it's a problem with the way the systems were engineered. My guess is that they can change the pricing level internally, but can't differentiate by order date. When the VIN/Pricing is created, it's likely based on the date it's created, rather than the day it's ordered, so when Ford changes the price, they can't just change it on one, they have to change it on all vehicles created after that date. Price protection is likely a workaround to that. Like I've said before, the number of price changes and retail orders is unprecedented. If you use our store as a benchmark, we used to place maybe 25 retail customer orders per year. Now, before the order banks all closed, we were ordering that many two weeks. The system was not designed for this workload. Tesla's business model is fundamentally different, they have always been an order first manufacturer.



Ford has been in business 119 years, is the leading manufacturer of light trucks in the US, and has had the best selling vehicle in this country for a few decades. They know how to run a business. That's not to say there's no room for improvement, as there is. Your points are valid, and I agree that Ford is actively doing things to better the customer experience. Tesla tends to get put up on a pedestal as this shining example of how to do things, but they also spent a lot of time burning through investor cash. They get a lot of latitude that a legacy business doesn't get.

That said, I think the Model e split is a very savvy move that will lead to the flexibility and responsiveness you wish to see.

Awesome reply and very interesting getting your point of view! I am in the Bay Area and I ordered from Capitol (mostly because they were the closest to me). I will definitely be looking to order from your dealership in the future! Also, for the record, I am not a fan of Tesla vehicles or the company in general and I think the random no warning price increases suck as well. Hence why I was waiting for a car to come along from a legacy manufacturer that could compete. I brought them up because most people and probably Ford themselves are comparing Ford to Tesla in many ways. Personally, I think Ford has the potential to beat Tesla in customer relations and brand loyalty. Like you said, they have been around for 100+ years and Tesla (and their leadership) doesn't really do much to be "nice" to their customers.

Oh and I absolutely agree with you that internally, Ford's systems definitely were not built to handle their current situation. They will need to overhaul their processes, methodologies, workflows, software systems, basically everything really to be more of an Amazon or Apple experience in purchasing. It seems like they have the will to do that; it's just a matter of how fast they can do it. I mean I could imagine a world where I go to the Ford website and build a car/truck, click a "order" button, choose a dealership, and then pay a deposit. Then, Ford automatically sends me weekly notifications on what step of the build process my vehicle is in. When it is shipped, the weekly notification comes with a geographical location of where the vehicle is and the planned route it needs to take to reach my dealership. It could even give ETA based on other similar vehicles shipped to the same dealership. Finally, when the car arrives, I log on to Ford's website, work out the payment details and pay, show up to the dealership and pick up the keys and drive away.

 

[Gloff]

Sean -- thank you for your help. I ended up landing with a semi-coherent person who only played half as dumb as his predecessor. (I wish I'd ordered w/ Serramonte. I'm a couple hours south of the Bay Area and, nice guy I am, gave the biz to my hometown dealer. Sad trombone. I am certain my car will inspire a couple of friends' purchases -- mach e is awesome -- and will send them your way.)

My semi-coherent salesperson met his match in a semi-coherent me. We ended up accidentally doing a Ford Options plan with $0 balloon. He since sent me an updated contract with what seems like a super high residual despite my 2.7% APR. I'm curious: do dealers have ability to fudge those numbers?

No, Ford will kick back the contract if the terms aren't correct. Which is why he sent you an updated one.

-Sean

 

[Gloff]

Oh and I absolutely agree with you that internally, Ford's systems definitely were not built to handle their current situation. They will need to overhaul their processes, methodologies, workflows, software systems, basically everything really to be more of an Amazon or Apple experience in purchasing. It seems like they have the will to do that; it's just a matter of how fast they can do it. I mean I could imagine a world where I go to the Ford website and build a car/truck, click a "order" button, choose a dealership, and then pay a deposit. Then, Ford automatically sends me weekly notifications on what step of the build process my vehicle is in. When it is shipped, the weekly notification comes with a geographical location of where the vehicle is and the planned route it needs to take to reach my dealership. It could even give ETA based on other similar vehicles shipped to the same dealership. Finally, when the car arrives, I log on to Ford's website, work out the payment details and pay, show up to the dealership and pick up the keys and drive away.

Ford's Model e split is likely headed this direction based on what Farley had to say when he announced it.

The idea is to have the freedom and empowerment of a startup with the business strength and supplier connections of a legacy manufacturer. This could be a huge advantage over companies like Tesla, Rivan, et. al.

FWIW, I think Tesla has done more for the EV industry than any manufacturer/startup in history to this point. I also think their products are great (CyberTruck notwithstanding). Tesla is being benchmarked by the industry for their innovativeness. Ford is using that to understand how they can appeal to both the tech crowd (which are generally free marketing) and the traditional vehicle customer base. The Mach-E is proof positive that you can appeal to both and be successful at it.

I've been part of a number of online buying programs and pilots over the years. What I've learned is the general public doesn't want that experience necessarily, they want the dealership experience, but not the hassle. The number of people that want to buy purely online (a facsimile of the Amazon experience) is relatively small. Some sort of hybrid is ideal in my purview. An option to get it just dropped off, or an option to pick up at the store with a concierge and most of the details handled online.

As an aside: The problem with pure online is compliance, the automotive sales industry is heavily regulated because dealers handle so much personal information. When we ran some all online purchase pilots, we ran into more fraud attempts in 6 months than we did in many years selling cars. Verification of identity is hard to do online while maintaining compliance. I assume that startups don't care as much, because they push the line as an ethos, so compliance is just another rule they bend. All the registration/titling issues are another factor, just ask Carvana.

 

[norwin37]

@Gloff My Mach-e has been stuck in my local railyard for a month with a dead battery. I'm desperate to get some kind of an update or an ETA or something. I've tried to work with my dealer and Ford directly. My dealer can't seem to get any traction and Ford thinks the car has been delivered so they're absolutely no help. Do you have any suggestions for another resource I could try? Is there a specific department at Ford I should be trying to contact? Thanks so much!

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