Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[Jolteon]

That is why all EVs, even those equipped with a heat pump, also have a resistive heater.

Go tear down a Model Y and point to the resistive heater. I'll wait.

Hint: it isn't there.

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[zhackwyatt]

I think there is also confusion and cross talking about the heat pump and the octovalve. They are two separate things from my understanding, although integrated in Tesla's case. You could put either one without the other on a car.

 

[mark360]

Go tear down a Model Y and point to the resistive heater. I'll wait.

Hint: it isn't there.

Jolteon, it's because the resistive heater is the motor. The Motor is much less Efficient at making heat because it was not designed to be inefficent - which is all a heater is. It was designed to convert energy at a 97% efficiency - to work or moving the gearbox.

Why do you think the Model Y uses more energy preheating in the cold than typical resistive heating elements found in the Model S, 3, etc? Because it is only efficient when the motors and battery are working hard and producing wasted excess energy in the form of heat that is capture from the fluid that runs through them.

 

[MerryBrown]

I suspect this member is a reincarnation of Mach-MI given the similarity of definitive comments expressing the superiority of Tesla. Now you know a person who does not care about a four camera dashcam--me. Dashcams have been available after-market for years. My brother loves his (and often sends me videos from the dashcam in his Porsche as he drives the curves) but I have never felt it was worth the value to me and I have never had a situation where I have later thought "darn I wish I had video of that." That said, it is entirely possible that I would learn to like the feature if it were standard on my car and I might even think "why did I wait so long for this feature." The in car Netflix/You Tube, etc. features are just silly (to me, albeit obviously critical features to Jolteon and Mach_MI).

Exactly -who watches Netflix while driving? Blocking him will make my time here more pleasant.

 

[Nak]

Mark360's video is irrelevant to anything but preconditioning. Of course you aren't going to have waste heat from the motors with the car sitting in the driveway; that happens when you're driving. I would have thought this was somewhat obvious. Yes, when the car is sitting Tesla uses the motors basically as a resistive load to produce heat. If more heat is needed while driving, the motors are operated efficiently to produce heat to heat the battery in the 3; I am uncertain if this is still used in the Y while driving. It probably is if needed would be my guess. If you pre-condition, this should only be needed in the bitterest of cold.

Mark360 may be trying to "de-bunk" the advantages of a heat pump, but hard data and experience proves he is wrong.

 

[Jolteon]

Exactly -who watches Netflix while driving? Blocking him will make my time here more pleasant.

Um... who said anything about Netflix while driving? That'd be crazy.

 

[mark360]

No. No no no no no. The motor is not resistive and therefore isn't "the resistive heater."

Of course the motor is stalled to create heat. That does not transform a motor into a resistor. It remains a motor.

That's probably why I didn't understand what you were talking about.

Do you even know what resistive heating is? Clearly you don't understand it. Resistive heating is simply heat generated by electrons flowing through any material that has resistance. This can be ANY material. Copper has resistance which is why it creates heat under load.

It doesn't matter if its a motor, battery, power lines, etc. These are all various forms of resistive heaters because of the nature of how power is dissipated through materials that are not superconductors.

 

[dbsb3233]

I have no idea on this one, but maybe Jason can help...

 

[efisher]

It doesn't, the system actually uses the motors as "resistive" heat to heat the fluid. This uses more energy if you are preheating the car in the winter. I posted about this and keep debunking the myth that the Model Y heat pump is some huge innovation - when in fact is adds unnecessary complexity and limited gains which are only seen under perfect conditions.

The results observed here probably have more to do with surface geometry and cabin insulation than demonstrating what the heat pump can or cannot do. I would be willing to bet that at 15 degrees, the Model Y was utilizing the resistive heater to supplement the heat pump.

Regarding the use of motor heat, most modern EVs are very good at scavenging heat from the motor but that does not necessarily require a heat pump.

 

[efisher]

Go tear down a Model Y and point to the resistive heater. I'll wait.

Hint: it isn't there.

I would find that hard to believe.

 

[Jolteon]

I would find that hard to believe.

That really doesn't change the fact that it isn't there.

 

[mark360]

But it is not "a resistive heater" it is a motor driven inefficiently.

It's not an autobot.

You're muddling the waters with this. Ford pays extra for a liquid PTC heater. Tesla uses the motor for "free" to get heat. That's the advantage of Tesla's solution to use the motor.

Unfortunately, this still goes over you head. I just don't think you really understand what resistive heating is. Tesla just decided to capture the resistive heating from the motors and batteries.

That is not innovative, an ICE motor has been using a heat pump for many years to heat the cabin.

 

[mark360]

Dude, again I don't have to defend my credentials to you. I understand this system *intimately*

That's fine brother, but again innovation is relative. You can't claim that a heat pump in an electric car is innovative, it's been around for many decades. It in fact quite odd Tesla would add the complexity and costs

The problem is, it's very simple to explain the Model Y Heat pump system. It is not efficient at creating heat unless you are operating the vehicle. It is not innovative, ICE engines do this exact same thing. The EPA gain from the heat pump was 1 mile added to the 315 mile EPA range, which imo is not worth the added complexity.

No he's twisting the definition of words. By his definition, the touchscreen is a "resistive heater" of the cabin as well since it gets warm too, therefore his definition is so generically broad as to be meaningless.

You do know the Model Y uses the electronics to heat the fluid that heats the cabin, right? LOL. Again you clearly do not understand what the definition of Resistive heating is.

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