Which charging networks are worth paid plan?

[mattbostonmache]

With BOCN Plug-n-charge, how do I tell if I am paying the full rate or a discounted rate? Am I part of the discount program?

The email receipt (that I receive 0-7 days later), only says how much I was charged. I don't even know if this is per kWh or per minute.

Here's a sample receipt before I turned off PNC.

Hi FIRST LAST, thanks for using BlueOval™ Charge Network.​

Here's a summary of your latest charge event and balance.​

RECEIPT Vehicle Nickname: Matt’s Mach E Date: 08/07/2022 Charge Event Address: 500 Gallery Blvd., Scarborough, Maine, USA, 04074​

Operator: Electrify America Charge Event Start Time: 08/07/2022 5:43 PM EDT Charge Event End Time: 08/07/2022 6:07 PM EDT​

Merchant: Ford - BEV Charging Sold To: Matt Coarr 40 Chaske Ave, Auburndale, MA, USA-02466​

Invoice Date: 08/07/2022 Confirmation Number: USADM00188464​

Energy: 22.00 kWh Session fee*: $7.26 Tax: $0.00 TOTAL: $7.26​

Total kWh Used: 22.00 kWh New Balance: 0.00 kWh​

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[dbsb3233]

With BOCN Plug-n-charge, how do I tell if I am paying the full rate or a discounted rate? Am I part of the discount program?

The email receipt (that I receive 0-7 days later), only says how much I was charged. I don't even know if this is per kWh or per minute.

Here's a sample receipt before I turned off PNC.

ME is a per-kWh state. $7.26 for 22 kWh = 33c/kWh. You must have gotten the discount rate (+tax). Discount rate is 31c, full rate is 43c (before tax).

 

[mattbostonmache]

ME is a per-kWh state. $7.26 for 22 kWh = 33c/kWh. You must have gotten the discount rate (+tax). Discount rate is 31c, full rate is 43c (before tax).

thanks @dbsb3233 !! I guess I can turn plug-n-charge back on and stop paying for EA Pass+.

also why we need more detailed receipts like EA sends us. ?

 

[dbsb3233]

thanks @dbsb3233 !! I guess I can turn plug-n-charge back on and stop paying for EA Pass+.

also why we need more detailed receipts like EA sends us. ?

Yes, more detail would be better. There is one odd part on that... it shows a line item for tax but it's zero. But the rate is 2c more than the normal 31c discount rate, and 2c on 31c would be 6.4% which sounds like the normal range for sales tax. So I'm guessing they just lumped it together. A bit odd, but it may vary from state to state how the tax is handled.

 

[ChuckA]

Referring to EVGos - tips for a better charging experience? They are prevalent here, but often throw faults on my MME or the RFID card or app doesn't work, etc...perhaps a setting I'm missing on the MME?

My experience in CT is that EVGO charges per minute. Therefore I never charge past 80% since the speed is halved to about 40 kWh. EVGO plans are not worth it.

EA seems to be good in CT and the $4 per month plan reducing cost to $.31 per kWh seems good if you do enough fast charging.

I would assume that home charging is cheaper then $.31 per kWh. So what if you out-consume your solar generation as long as it’s the cheaper solution?

Retrain your better half. She still has an ICE mindset. No need to top-off the SOC.

 

[ChuckA]

I agree that it seems like a pretty unusual choice, to put it mildly, to actually go more out of pocket on electricity just to maintain the illusion that you are not paying for any electricity by not charging at home.

What happens if you generate more electricity than you can use? Does your utility pay you for the electricity you give them? At the market rate?

Because if not, that’s doubly wasteful - paying more at commercial stations instead of home charging AND giving your utility a bit of free electricity because you’d rather generate say 105% of your usage and throw 5% of that away rather than say generate 90% of your usage and pay your utility for the difference at a residential rate.

Usually solar is done on a net meter that banks overages to be used against under generation later. Think of it in like cellphone rollover minutes.

 

[ChuckA]

+ one million. If you can charge at home do it. Always. Even during peak times, utility rates are less than public chargers.
I also have solar that can supply 100% of my normal home needs, and charging has made me dip into the grid again. But it's cheaper than EA by 2/3. Plus I am adding a half dozen additional panels to my solar array once cooler weather arrives this fall to help bring me back to parity for charging.

What does your 6 solar panels cost? It may be cheaper to buy kWh from your utility.

 

[RickMachE]

Yes, more detail would be better. There is one odd part on that... it shows a line item for tax but it's zero. But the rate is 2c more than the normal 31c discount rate, and 2c on 31c would be 6.4% which sounds like the normal range for sales tax. So I'm guessing they just lumped it together. A bit odd, but it may vary from state to state how the tax is handled.

That is how all Blue Oval Charging Network receipts are.

 

[mkhuffman]

TIMBOP won't say "stealing" electricity. So I will say "abusing" a privilege of "free charging". Come to think about it....you are stealing from them if you are not patronizing their business.

When a charger is at a mall, restaurant, hotel.... they are paying for that electricity. They put them there so that people will come and patronize their business. they are not doing it to help you save money...they are doing it so that you will spend money in their establishment.

I stay at a particular hotel specifically when visiting family because they have "free chargers for customers" there. Is it the cheapest hotel? No. Is it the closest hotel? No. But my sister doesn't have an outlet accessible to me. So I am willing to pay that extra $30 a night to get that $15-$20 worth of charging while I sleep. Still cheaper than gas and I didn't have to drive an extra 10 miles and wait at a DCFC. The last time I stayed there, there was a Model S and a Model 3 (not Tesla bashing) charging at mid-night with the owners in the driver seats (who shut off their phones when I drove up). Since the other 2 Free customer chargers were taken, I asked the front desk to check if they were staying at the hotel. One driver immediately unplugged and drove away quickly without acknowledging the manager (Model S). He knew he was stealing. The other claimed they didn't know it was for customers only and then drove way not before the manager pointed at the sign right above the charger that stated "EV charging for hotel guests only".

In CA, there are very few truly "Free Public Charging" stations. There is a business(es) behind it trying to draw in customers. Nobody gives away electricity (well, except for the sun). If it is free at a rest stop, then your taxes paid for it.

If people continue to abuse the benefits of "free charging", those companies will see benefits of providing it erode away and they will just remove those chargers.

That hotel I stay at has already replaced some of the free chargers with pay chargers. Way to go...cheapskates, abusers, thieves....

I remember back in the 70s (I was a kid) and during the gas crisis, there was a hotel (don't remember who) that would offer a few gallons of gas per stay. Travel was down because of the fuel costs/availability. I remember standing in line to check in with my dad and a man was arguing with the manager to give him his free gas. This person was checking out each day and then rechecking in to get the gas. I guess the hotel didn't think it fully through, but they probably weren't expecting someone to try and abuse there incentive to get people to stay at there hotel. They killed the program within a week.

Getting back to the original question. EA is an absolute bargain when it comes to DCFC. In CA, no Peak and Off-Peak rates. $0.43 w/o and $0.31 w/ membership. No guessing on how much I will pay. Only 30KWH and you make the $4 back. That is only90 miles of driving. On road trips, I try to stay on EA to support them and help them grow. But if EA is full, I use a charge point charger to support a business who is offering the ability to charge. At almost double the rate, I charge enough to get to the next set of EA chargers. I could wait 30+ minutes for the next EA charger...but even at $0.60.kWh to grab 10kWh (roughly 25-27 miles). I am still saving on what it would have cost in my 2016 Mustang GT. So I don't don't worry about it.

And now, I will step away from the soapbox...
Have a great EV week!

Yes, exactly. They are not doing it to encourage BEV adoption or to be philanthropic; it is a business decision to provide a perk that brings in additional customers. If they lose money or don't get the added customers they were hoping for, they'll stop doing it.

Further proof of the adage "a few ***holes are bound to ruin a good thing for everybody".

^^^ 1000% this.

@jgillmer, I know you are trying to shut down discussion of L2 charging theft, but poor charging etiquette is a huge deal to me and many others who use it responsibly.

I think maybe it it time to talk your wife about how stealing free L2 charging from businesses you are not using is morally wrong. Maybe she never thought about it that way, and maybe that will be enough to convince her that you should charge at home.

Here is the rule everyone should follow: never use "free" charging provided by a business you are not paying for their services. This means only using free charging at a hotel if you are actually staying there. This means only using free charging at a mall while you are actually shopping there.

If you don't follow the rule, you are stealing. If you and your wife are OK with theft, I guess keep doing what you are doing. But the rest of us notice people who steal "free" charging, and it really pisses us off. OK, it really pisses ME off.

 

[DYohn]

What does your 6 solar panels cost? It may be cheaper to buy kWh from your utility.

I currently have 52 solar panels on my roof and I'm adding 6 more to add an tadeonal 1.8 Kw capacity. I don't care what it costs or if buying from the grid is cheaper, I want to be off the grid as much as possible.

 

[RickMachE]

A relative is a senior manager in county government. She had to discipline an employee who was parking across the street all day at a school to use the free charger, and eventually the school caught on and had the police run the plate.

I took classes at a community college a few years back. They had several level 2 chargers. One of my instructors was also a VP there, and he oversaw the installation of them. I pointed out that it appeared that local business employees were parking there and then walking to their buildings. His response was "it's a community charger".

I agree that most private chargers are intended for people that also shop at the business. At a hotel, we observed a local with a Chevy Bolt pulling in often with her son and sitting charging for lunchtime. Told the manager, he didn't care.

 

[dbsb3233]

A relative is a senior manager in county government. She had to discipline an employee who was parking across the street all day at a school to use the free charger, and eventually the school caught on and had the police run the plate.

I took classes at a community college a few years back. They had several level 2 chargers. One of my instructors was also a VP there, and he oversaw the installation of them. I pointed out that it appeared that local business employees were parking there and then walking to their buildings. His response was "it's a community charger".

I agree that most private chargers are intended for people that also shop at the business. At a hotel, we observed a local with a Chevy Bolt pulling in often with her son and sitting charging for lunchtime. Told the manager, he didn't care.

That's the problem with "free". We're gonna see more and more of this until hosts secure their chargers.

I'm guilty of it too once in a while. Every few months we do a road trip across 4 states. One of our usual hotel stops along the way has a business park a block away with 6 free L2 chargers. I often park there overnight and it hits 100% right before we leave in the morning. Super convenient since the EA station is 10 minutes off the interstate (each way) and we'd only charge to 80% on DCFC. I actually wish this business park would charge a fair rate, and I'd feel better about it. It's more about the convenience, the 100% charge, and L2 being better for the car.

 

[mkhuffman]

That's the problem with "free". We're gonna see more and more of this until hosts secure their chargers.

I'm guilty of it too once in a while. Every few months we do a road trip across 4 states. One of our usual hotel stops along the way has a business park a block away with 6 free L2 chargers. I often park there overnight and it hits 100% right before we leave in the morning. Super convenient since the EA station is 10 minutes off the interstate (each way) and we'd only charge to 80% on DCFC. I actually wish this business park would charge a fair rate, and I'd feel better about it. It's more about the convenience, the 100% charge, and L2 being better for the car.

I am also guilty.

I was at the beach and my house did not have a 240V outlet. My wife took the MME out with her father to see the local sights and had to turn around due to low battery. I could not keep up with our daily driving using L1 charging. The nearest DCFC is 120 miles away. The mall 2 miles from the house has a L2 so I used it. I wasn't shopping there at the time.

Since then I installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet and purchased a Grizzl-e for travel charging, and now I won't need to use that mall's free charging inappropriately. I don't see a way around what I did but I did purposely go to that mall to shop later in the week. I purchased a few things including some awesome hot sauce.

This reminds me of bathrooms at restaurants. Normally we will purchase something, even if it is just a drink, if we go into a fast food restaurant to use the bathroom. The bathroom is for customers, so we try to honor that policy.

 

[joep]

I actually took pictures of the EA charges each time I charged, and did direct comparisons. Blue Oval definitely costs more than the No pass EA rates on some charges, and significantly more compared to actual EA $4/month member rates. It’s not a lot, but why pay any mark up at all? My expectation was that Ford would use their leverage to provide customers discounted rates. Look at what Tesla did with Marriott and other Destination Charger locations. I love my Mach E, but Ford is killing themselves with poor software design and customer service.

 

[joep]

That's the problem with "free". We're gonna see more and more of this until hosts secure their chargers.

I'm guilty of it too once in a while. Every few months we do a road trip across 4 states. One of our usual hotel stops along the way has a business park a block away with 6 free L2 chargers. I often park there overnight and it hits 100% right before we leave in the morning. Super convenient since the EA station is 10 minutes off the interstate (each way) and we'd only charge to 80% on DCFC. I actually wish this business park would charge a fair rate, and I'd feel better about it. It's more about the convenience, the 100% charge, and L2 being better for the car.

I’m sure your correct about abuses occurring, but your road trip example indicates you might be missing a key point about L2 destination chargers: From a retail business perspective, the cost of L2 charging (<$1/hour) is nothing compared to the potential increased revenue that comes with drawing in more folks who can afford EVs. I parked for several hours at an L2 charger in the outlet mall near my hotel last month, and ended up dropping ~$100 while I was there. With 30-50% gross margins, they’re not missing the $5 worth of electricity.

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