Per Study, ICE fueling costs fall below price of EV charging

[mateo]

I haven't done a detailed analysis, but in the first full month of owning an EV, the electric bill was up $50 due to increased energy usage compared to same time period in the previous year. This accounts for the difference in energy pricing between periods. I did around $20 of fast charging during that period as well.

On average I was spending $150-$250 on monthly fuel.

So for me, I'm sure I'm saving a lot in fuel costs. However, I had to spend around $40k after rebates/trade-in for the car, so it's not like I did this to save money.

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[Accord07]

30,496 miles after 13 months, total cost of charging $1,382, including the occasional use of DCFC and free L2 charging (the latter is negligible in the total amount of kWh). Gas price averaged between $3.50 to $4.00 per gallon during that period, at $3.50/gallon, I would need an ICE vehicle averaging 77 mpg to match the electricity cost.

 

[JcMarin]

I average 3.0 mi/kw in the MME-GT and my cost from FPL after all utility & Tax charges comes out to $0.1454 so it cost me $4.85 for 100mi

In comparison (and I know this is not the ideal ICE in terms of MPG but its what the MME replaced) in the F-Pace @ current $4/gal premium and average 23 MPG I was getting it was costing me $17.4 for 100mi

My oldest is putting a lot of miles on the MME on his job (promoting @ retail locations all over S.FL) and with these numbers we are saving ~ $300 a month in Gas

Update:
Since I have the FPL Evolution program now, it cost me $31 a month to charge as much as I want my MME so I'm saving an average of $360 a month in gas

 

[Fatty Lumpkin]

It is 100% right. I'm guessing you guys in NY didn't receive a 64% rate increase on November 1st, like MA did. But it is indeed true. To be precise:

Supply rate: 33891

Delivery fees breakdown as follows. The Customer Charge is fixed, but all other fees are rates based on the kWh used.

Customer Charge $7 fixed
Dist Charge .07217
Transition Charge -0.00085
Transmission Charge 0.03902
Energy Efficiency Chg 0.02198
Renewable Energy Chg 0.0005
Distributed Solar Charge 0.00396
Electric Vehicle Charge 0.00064

Do the math and you're just shy of 14 cents per kWh in delivery fees (excluding fixed customer charge) and just shy of 34 cents per kWh for supply. Grand total is .477/kWh plus $7.

Yeah this price increase was brutal. They claim it was a 64% increase but I realized in November that the estimated cost per charge in the ChargePoint app DOUBLED at home. I’m not sure how accurate Chargepoint’s estimation is but it’s supposed to use your local rates. Combined with the drop in the cost of gas, it brought the comparative costs about equal with ICE. Previously the electricity costs were about a third of What I would have been spending on gas. Thankfully I can still charge at work most of the time which will charge up my ER roughly 25-26% for a $1 over the 4hrs we are allowed.

 

[EasyPass]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics

 

[roamtheworld]

What he said.

30,496 miles after 13 months, total cost of charging $1,382, including the occasional use of DCFC and free L2 charging (the latter is negligible in the total amount of kWh). Gas price averaged between $3.50 to $4.00 per gallon during that period, at $3.50/gallon, I would need an ICE vehicle averaging 77 mpg to match the electricity cost.

Most people do not have cars that get better than 32MPG
We have driven SUVs and trucks the past 15 years that get no better than 16MPG and with the average vehicle in use on roads today at 12 years (https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/e...ehicles-in-the-us-increases-to-122-years.html) I'm positive they aren't getting over 32MPG at 12 years old so EVs are still a good value.

 

[hawkeye3point1]

You are paying 34 cents per kw for your charging?

Sadly yes, rate nearly doubled in Dec., fortunately I do not drive 1600 mi./mo. like I used to.

 

[Cooghead]

I pay 11.9 per kWh in Texas. If I did my math correctly , it costs me around $4.50 to go 100 miles.

 

[RyanSD]

Why don't you invest in ~30kWh worth of LFP batteries and a grid-tie inverter than can neutral out your load during the peak times around the solar. Fill them up with cheap super-off-peak power. I'm about to have 60kWh worth of batteries to do the same. My super off peak is 1.49 cents, off peak 6.9cents (which is most of the time sans summer 3 months which is ~24 cents 2p-7). The goal is to only buy super off peak power, while having the solar means to go without the grid entirely. The super off-peak power is just too cheap not to buy. Cover the solar when possible once you get your storage to an adequate size to reduce degradation.

Current LFP batteries can run 80% depth of discharge every day for over 20 years before they reach a point where they're down to 80% of remaining rated capacity. Between your solar and batteries, you'd have 30kWh worth of super off peak power and 20kWh of solar power to offset those insane rates. How much would your bill drop if you were able to remove 732kWh of power from peak times? If that was summer on-peak, that power is $550 in savings. If it was an average spread of winter usage, that's $244 worth of real savings, or well over $3500/yr.

Batteries and an inverter make $ back far faster than solar alone when you have highly discounted night rates. Without any panels at all, such a setup with my rates would make 1830kWh worth of house power cost $79 (plus any power used for the house during the SOP hours), Add in 800 miles of EV power, another $14, and for...
$100 on the nose = 2,000kWh+ for house power (10% efficiency loss included FWIW), and 800 miles of EV fuel.

With a 20kWh solar array factored in however (actual capacity, not total daily output), on average I end up with a surplus of power (~3,000kWh monthly generation potential).....
That's where it gets tricky as the $100 is so cheap and then panels alone kinda not make it worth it once the inverters and LFPs are online. How much piece of mind is being 100% grid independent worth though....

I live in an attached townhome with limited space.

 

[D’Roc]

Here is an earlier study on the ICE vs. EV fueling costs from the same group. They are also including the cost of the EVSE in the cost of fueling. It say how they normalize the EVSE cost, but you can see in the charts it constitutes a significant amount of the cost, approximately 50% of the cost of the energy.

https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.c...l-world-cost-of-fueling-evs-and-ice-vehicles/

Someone else on the thread had stated the Study used a $350+ L2 EVSE charge annually in their calculations. I paid $579 for my JuiceBox in July 2018 and have used it with my Volt, ELR, Taycan, and now MME. Combining all of them, I have >50K EV only miles. $579/50,000=$0.01158/mile or $1.15 for 100 miles. Add that to my $3.84 electricity cost for a Grand Total of $4.98/100 miles.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I would say an Escape is a closer comparison. There’s no way I’d ever darken the doorway of a Porsche dealership, and they’d probably have their security guards give me the bum’s rush out if I ever tried. The only time I ever was in a Porsche was when Delta gave me a ride between terminals in Atlanta one time.

Lufthansa in Frankfurt for me . Once in a lifetime experience.

I am picking this up from factors that impact aerodynamics and energy efficiency. The exterior dimensions of the MME are almost exactly the same, except that the Macan is an inch or two wider. Also, acceleration is 0.2 seconds different.

 

[acosmichippo]

I managed to find a link to the a more detailed report (from 2021):
https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/EV_ICE_FuelingCosts_2ed4-5-22.pdf

Page 72 has a nice breakdown of the numbers they used. My biggest problem was that they added the cost of a home charger at $364/year! (over 12k miles). That added almost 30% of the cost (and now I know how they go to such a large number for the EV). But then they didn't bother to add oil changes, which could easily run $100+/year. Who here is buying a new charger every year?

I'm assuming they amortized the charger plus installation cost over some years.

 

[superdave80]

Most people do not have cars that get better than 32MPG
We have driven SUVs and trucks the past 15 years that get no better than 16MPG and with the average vehicle in use on roads today at 12 years (https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/e...ehicles-in-the-us-increases-to-122-years.html) I'm positive they aren't getting over 32MPG at 12 years old so EVs are still a good value.

The study is only looking at cars (not SUVs or trucks), so the 32 MPG is pretty accurate. If they were looking at the nationwide average of all vehicles on the road today, it would be closer to 25 MPG.

 

[superdave80]

I'm assuming they amortized the charger plus installation cost over some years.

They did, but only five years, which is BS. I could almost understand the assumption of needing to replace a charger every five years (maybe). But the wiring (which is the bigger cost, if it's even needed), should be amortized over something like 30 years. But they needed SOME way to make EVs look worse than they really are.

 

[acosmichippo]

I couldn’t view the original article due to subscriber login but I found this synopsis:

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2023-01/EV Cost Analysis 2022 Q4 Update.pdf

interestingly enough the article actually says for luxury vehicles vs luxury EV, the EV is a lot cheaper.

Also interestingly a large cost of charging the EV is the cost of the level 2 charger Which is a similar conclusion to what I reached in my prior post

exactly. We paid a LOT to install an L2 charger at our townhouse (no garage, had to bore under sidewalk, etc.).

We decided to bite the bullet because 1) the tax credits (for the car as well as EVSE) would more than cover that cost, 2) by the time we want to sell the house, hopefully it will be viewed as a value with more people owning (or wanting to own) EVs, and 3) costs aside, it's just the right thing to do.

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