FordPass & PAAK use cancelled unless you give away ALL personal and real-time driving data ?!

A-A-Ron

Well-Known Member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Threads
7
Messages
667
Reaction score
1,762
Location
DFW, TX
Vehicles
'21 MME Premium 4X
Country flag
I may have clicked thru the first version when I bought my car and installed FordPass.... but I'm not planning on accepting the revised terms. I'd like to just stick with versions I have right now, and NOT allow OTAs without my knowledge or consent, and NOT allow any of my realtime data to be exported for any reason.

I would like to continue to use my PAAK, but I'll give that up if that's the only way to prevent unauthorized use of personal information.

I was willing to send aggregated sensor data for Engineering, I am not willing to send data tied to me specifically.
That's always been the case with the Mach E. That's how anyone with an FDRS account and your VIN can look up errors on this forum for you. It's how you can go to your dealership's website and schedule service and it pulls up your mileage when you enter your VIN. It's not unique to Ford either. I'd get calls from my BMW service department 1000 miles before it was due for maintenance asking when and how I'd like to arrange for it to be serviced.
Sponsored

 

MellowJohnny

Well-Known Member
First Name
Christian
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Threads
69
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
2,000
Location
YYZ
Vehicles
2022 Mach-E Premium AWD
Occupation
Solution Architect
Country flag
The norm these days is to ā€sellā€ your data in exchange for ā€œfreeā€ services. Facebook perfected this model *years* ago. You didnā€™t pay for the FordPass App, so in essence you got all the functionality for ā€œfreeā€. What Ford gets in exchange is something useful / valuable to them. Thatā€™s the ā€œcontractā€.

If you think down the road it will be abused, feel free to opt out, but what happens if a crucial safety-related firmware update is *not* pushed to you? Like something the NHTSA has mandated Ford fix?

In todayā€™s day and age ā€œprivacyā€ is an illusion, such a thing simply does not exist.
 

Jimrpa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Threads
230
Messages
7,009
Reaction score
9,299
Location
Wayne, PA
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue Premium Mustang Mach E ER AWD
Occupation
Retied (formerly tried to herd highly technical, independent cats)
Country flag
yup, just one though.
I just checked, battery is dead (less than 2 years old ?!)
Then youā€™re good for a while - those batteries are on back order so youā€™ll be driving that fine loaner EcoSport for a while. Iā€™m sure itā€™s not sophisticated enough to spy on you.
Seriously though - get down to the dealer and get your second fob!
 

Mirak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2020
Threads
109
Messages
3,660
Reaction score
5,840
Location
Kansas
Vehicles
"Sonic" 2021 MME Grabber Blue First Edition
Country flag
@Ford Motor Company, I will gladly provide you with any personal info you'd like (including who actually pulled the fire alarm in third grade) in exchange for:
- BC1.2
- FordPass frunk release
- top ribbon trunk access
- prettier non-clip art top ribbon buttons
- turning my interior alarm motion sensors off
- not switching to guest profile every time I remote start

DM me.
 

Jimrpa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Threads
230
Messages
7,009
Reaction score
9,299
Location
Wayne, PA
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue Premium Mustang Mach E ER AWD
Occupation
Retied (formerly tried to herd highly technical, independent cats)
Country flag
yup, just one though.
I just checked, battery is dead (less than 2 years old ?!)
By the way, I do understand where youā€™re coming from, Iā€™m just not going to put the Ford Motor Company in the same bucket as Alphabet or Meta or TikTok or Twitter or any of the other big tech companies that explicitly monetize YOU and have been repeatedly deliberately careless with personal information. At the end of the day, Ford is a car company, not a data company. Just like Microsoft is an IT products and services company, and Apple is a ā€¦ i dunno ā€¦ computerish gadgets company? (Steve would be so confused!) I do turn off all the data sharing stuff I can, simply to hopefully limit leaks, if possible (probably futile). I suspect weā€™re probably getting into areas that @DevSecOps is much more knowledgeable about.
 


Jimrpa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Threads
230
Messages
7,009
Reaction score
9,299
Location
Wayne, PA
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue Premium Mustang Mach E ER AWD
Occupation
Retied (formerly tried to herd highly technical, independent cats)
Country flag
@Ford Motor Company, I will gladly provide you with any personal info you'd like (including who actually pulled the fire alarm in third grade) in exchange for:
- BC1.2
- FordPass frunk release
- top ribbon trunk access
- prettier non-clip art top ribbon buttons
- turning my interior alarm motion sensors off
- not switching to guest profile every time I remote start

DM me.
Add top ribbon frunk access as well and Iā€™m in on that deal too šŸ˜€
 

hybrid2bev

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Threads
75
Messages
4,071
Reaction score
11,093
Location
USA
Vehicles
2021 Job 1 Premium4X - EAP Member
Country flag
@Ford Motor Company, I will gladly provide you with any personal info you'd like (including who actually pulled the fire alarm in third grade) in exchange for:
- BC1.2
- FordPass frunk release
- top ribbon trunk access
- prettier non-clip art top ribbon buttons
- turning my interior alarm motion sensors off
- not switching to guest profile every time I remote start

DM me.
I'd do it for:
- BC 1.2 (right now, not this summer)
šŸ˜‚
 
OP
OP
dtbaker61

dtbaker61

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
May 11, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
3,974
Reaction score
3,646
Location
santa fe,nm
Website
www.envirokarma.org
Vehicles
MME (delivered 2/26/21), DIY eMiata BEV
Occupation
Solar Sales/install
Country flag
That's always been the case with the Mach E. That's how anyone with an FDRS account and your VIN can look up errors on this forum for you. It's how you can go to your dealership's website and schedule service and it pulls up your mileage when you enter your VIN. It's not unique to Ford either. I'd get calls from my BMW service department 1000 miles before it was due for maintenance asking when and how I'd like to arrange for it to be serviced.

I understand that.

The new FP agreement allows Ford to collect, and sell my data WITHOUT my permission... not just use it for servicing my vehicle at my request.

AND it allows OTA updates whether I want them or not

AND it allows Ford control of systems FordPass can talk to (doors, start being the most important)
 

Hammered

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Threads
26
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
1,093
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 PB F150, MME GTPE
Country flag
By the way, I do understand where youā€™re coming from, Iā€™m just not going to put the Ford Motor Company in the same bucket as Alphabet or Meta or TikTok or Twitter or any of the other big tech companies that explicitly monetize YOU and have been repeatedly deliberately careless with personal information. At the end of the day, Ford is a car company, not a data company. Just like Microsoft is an IT products and services company, and Apple is a ā€¦ i dunno ā€¦ computerish gadgets company? (Steve would be so confused!) I do turn off all the data sharing stuff I can, simply to hopefully limit leaks, if possible (probably futile). I suspect weā€™re probably getting into areas that @DevSecOps is much more knowledgeable about.
Ford is a data company like any other, they've just dragged their ass in realizing this.

If they used a 3rd party hosted company for cloud purposes, they're in-fact sharing your data with 3rd parties from a legal argument's sake. You're in so many purchasable DB's it'd make your head spin. Your cellular provider knows location continually (and by extension, the NSA sharing their data facilities). Your phone's MFG and the company the OS is made by knows it too. All levels of govts run stingrays, they too are picking up your cellular specifics. Your favorite mapping app knows it. Far too many apps scrape the data too (aka, don't install apps you can perform in a browser). Any public wifi you've allowed your phone to connect to knows when you drive by, as do those who've cloned those devices and put them near an area you pass. Your phone's bluetooth is putting out a beacon that can be used to track you.

On the bright side, your bank/s and CCs know your habits and are able to stop most financial fraud (funny stories in regards to people out-running their algorithms speeding and getting a fraud alert because their location has changed faster than the system believes it should).

It's not hard to go 'dark', but it's really inconvenient to you. LPRs and other cameras able to scrape tag info are everywhere. Even dumb cameras have become really smart simply because there's advanced Ai watching its feed and interpreting the data.

This little camera cluster can fit into even the smallest of aircraft and provide a city-wide surveillance system you can't hide from. No special drone needed, just a cheap cessna circling overhead at 9kft. Couple it to a neural network that's also watching traffic cams, and well, yeah.

Ford Mustang Mach-E FordPass & PAAK use cancelled unless you give away ALL personal and real-time driving data ?! 1674856334224


So, given all of the vectors in which you can be tracked, the goal should be to minimize personal risk while maximizing utility from the systems.
Or you could live in a cabin in the middle of the woods shaded by trees with no internet.
 

HOLOTYPE

Active Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Jan 20, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
29
Reaction score
27
Location
Sanford, FL
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E Premium AWD ER
Occupation
Software support engineer
Country flag
I understand that.

The new FP agreement allows Ford to collect, and sell my data WITHOUT my permission... not just use it for servicing my vehicle at my request.

AND it allows OTA updates whether I want them or not

AND it allows Ford control of systems FordPass can talk to (doors, start being the most important)
Can you point out exactly where it says Ford is allowed to have control of your remote systems (doors and start)? The way it reads to me is that authorized users will have access to your remote systems. It says " Authorized users can view vehicle information including, but not limited to, vehicle location, upcoming and past trips, and FordPass as well as vehicle usage information. Additionally, authorized users will have access to remote vehicle features such as remote lock and unlock." Unless Ford themselves are an authorized user, but it doesn't specify. Just seems to cover the bases here to say something like, if you are complaining that someone you don't want is remotely unlocking your car,its notFords fault if you have them listed as an authorized user.

I also don't see where it says they will sell your data willy nilly. It says " We do not provide personal information we collect through FordPass to anyone for independent use without providing you a choice". Now what that choice is, they did not elaborate on. But I would presume this choice would present itself in the app if necessary. Maybe it has to do with something like Alexa, which is a newly added service you can choose to use. Other than that, they do have caveats on how they use your data, but it sure doesn't read like they are going to start sharing your driving history with your insurance company or something like that.

In terms of forced OTA updates. I do see where "(Ford) or our affiliates or service providers may remotely check and automatically update your Software according to the vehicle software End User License Agreement (ā€œEULAā€) provided in your vehicleā€™s Owner Guide or otherwise by us" However, I could see this coming in handy for an emergency. What if an issue is identified that can be quickly mitigated with a software update? Well, you best believe Ford is going to want to make sure your car receives it. If you take your car in for service, they can check to see which version you are at and update you to the latest if they can, I presume. I guess you could take it in and ask them specifically NOT to check your version but, I don't know why you wouldn't want to be on the latest?

lastly, I don't see where companies have some sort of magical exemption. They can't even be members of FordPass. It says:
"FordPass is only open to individuals; companies, groups and organizations cannot be members."

I'm sure I've agreed to WAY worse terms to use social media than to FordPass bar none.
 
OP
OP
dtbaker61

dtbaker61

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
May 11, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
3,974
Reaction score
3,646
Location
santa fe,nm
Website
www.envirokarma.org
Vehicles
MME (delivered 2/26/21), DIY eMiata BEV
Occupation
Solar Sales/install
Country flag
Can you point out exactly where it says Ford is allowed to have control of your remote systems (doors and start)? The way it reads to me is that authorized users will have access to your remote systems. It says " Authorized users can view vehicle information including, but not limited to, vehicle location, upcoming and past trips, and FordPass as well as vehicle usage information. Additionally, authorized users will have access to remote vehicle features such as remote lock and unlock." Unless Ford themselves are an authorized user, but it doesn't specify. Just seems to cover the bases here to say something like, if you are complaining that someone you don't want is remotely unlocking your car,its notFords fault if you have them listed as an authorized user.

I also don't see where it says they will sell your data willy nilly. It says " We do not provide personal information we collect through FordPass to anyone for independent use without providing you a choice". Now what that choice is, they did not elaborate on. But I would presume this choice would present itself in the app if necessary. Maybe it has to do with something like Alexa, which is a newly added service you can choose to use. Other than that, they do have caveats on how they use your data, but it sure doesn't read like they are going to start sharing your driving history with your insurance company or something like that.

In terms of forced OTA updates. I do see where "(Ford) or our affiliates or service providers may remotely check and automatically update your Software according to the vehicle software End User License Agreement (ā€œEULAā€) provided in your vehicleā€™s Owner Guide or otherwise by us" However, I could see this coming in handy for an emergency. What if an issue is identified that can be quickly mitigated with a software update? Well, you best believe Ford is going to want to make sure your car receives it. If you take your car in for service, they can check to see which version you are at and update you to the latest if they can, I presume. I guess you could take it in and ask them specifically NOT to check your version but, I don't know why you wouldn't want to be on the latest?

lastly, I don't see where companies have some sort of magical exemption. They can't even be members of FordPass. It says:
"FordPass is only open to individuals; companies, groups and organizations cannot be members."

I'm sure I've agreed to WAY worse terms to use social media than to FordPass bar none.

I don't have time to dig thru specifics today or near term.... for now I have:
- not accepted
- will put a new battery in my one Fob, and try to get a second from Dealer
- turned off auto-updates
- turned off wi-fi
 

Hammered

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Threads
26
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
1,093
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 PB F150, MME GTPE
Country flag
I don't have time to dig thru specifics today or near term.... for now I have:
- not accepted
- will put a new battery in my one Fob, and try to get a second from Dealer
- turned off auto-updates
- turned off wi-fi
You must unplug the TCU entirely -- it's always on. Alternatively, unplug the antennas from it then it can't talk to anything unless it's stupidly close.

Similar concept to that missing malaysian airlines 777. They didn't pay for the TCU service on the engines, but it was still calling home which is how they knew where to search.
 
OP
OP
dtbaker61

dtbaker61

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
May 11, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
3,974
Reaction score
3,646
Location
santa fe,nm
Website
www.envirokarma.org
Vehicles
MME (delivered 2/26/21), DIY eMiata BEV
Occupation
Solar Sales/install
Country flag
You must unplug the TCU entirely -- it's always on. Alternatively, unplug the antennas from it then it can't talk to anything unless it's stupidly close.

Similar concept to that missing malaysian airlines 777. They didn't pay for the TCU service on the engines, but it was still calling home which is how they knew where to search.
I just don't want auto-updates of Sync or anything else via OTA without knowing about it. As long as I turn off the connection to my home wi-fi, I should be ok?
 

hybrid2bev

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Threads
75
Messages
4,071
Reaction score
11,093
Location
USA
Vehicles
2021 Job 1 Premium4X - EAP Member
Country flag
You must unplug the TCU entirely -- it's always on. Alternatively, unplug the antennas from it then it can't talk to anything unless it's stupidly close.

Similar concept to that missing malaysian airlines 777. They didn't pay for the TCU service on the engines, but it was still calling home which is how they knew where to search.
Ford Mustang Mach-E FordPass & PAAK use cancelled unless you give away ALL personal and real-time driving data ?! 1674860584763
 

Hammered

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Threads
26
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
1,093
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 PB F150, MME GTPE
Country flag
I just don't want auto-updates of Sync or anything else via OTA without knowing about it. As long as I turn off the connection to my home wi-fi, I should be ok?
No, it's all done via cellular!

Here's all the wifi data my MME has used via wifi, lifetime. Left is upload, right is download. For reference the sync updates are 4GB
Ford Mustang Mach-E FordPass & PAAK use cancelled unless you give away ALL personal and real-time driving data ?! 1674861081727


Well, for the last 241 days anyway -- I keep a close eye on all of my network traffic
Router uptime...
Ford Mustang Mach-E FordPass & PAAK use cancelled unless you give away ALL personal and real-time driving data ?! 1674861178797
 
 




Top