What generates more regen in the Mach-E -- 1 pedal or 2 pedal driving? The measured data proves it.

[HuntingPudel]

Is there no issue with driving in L gear at any speed including highway driving? I was recently pondering how much difference there is between engaging 1DP vs. L in low sppeds as a curiosity, but thought at the very least L would have some side affect at higher rates of speed as it likely isn't "tuned" for that application.

L on the “gear selector” isn’t a gear. It just simulates a lower gear by increasing electric motor resistance (through increased regeneration). It’s not noticeable to select “L” when the car is in Unbridled, but it is in the other two drive modes. I only drive in Unbridled, so I can’t say that regeneration resistance is any different to drive in one of the other modes with the selector in “L.” ?‍?

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[SnBGC]

Is there no issue with driving in L gear at any speed including highway driving? I was recently pondering how much difference there is between engaging 1DP vs. L in low sppeds as a curiosity, but thought at the very least L would have some side affect at higher rates of speed as it likely isn't "tuned" for that application.

There is no issue using L at any speed.
As best as I can tell, L appears to be exactly the same as 2PD Unbridled so it only makes a difference in the Whisper or Engage modes. But yeah, you can use it anytime, anywhere you want. It's basically Unbridled regen on demand IMO....

 

[EasyPass]

L on the “gear selector” isn’t a gear. It just simulates a lower gear by increasing electric motor resistance (through increased regeneration). It’s not noticeable to select “L” when the car is in Unbridled, but it is in the other two drive modes. I only drive in Unbridled, so I can’t say that regeneration resistance is any different to drive in one of the other modes with the selector in “L.” ?‍?

Is it implicit, then, to say that:

• L mode only engages/amplifies motor regen when the car is moving without pressure on the accelerator
• 1PD engages motor regen and a blended level of friction braking as well
• In Unbridled mode the regen recovery is ~equal to the other two modes, but may not be felt in the seat of the pants in operation.

 

[Msnwcpa]

That's why I use 2PD Whisper + L gear 100% of the time. The regen from L does nearly all my slowing from high or medium speeds, and it's nicely moderated/smoothed with the go-pedal.

Then I apply the brake pedal for the final stopping, or if I need a bit more slowing than L regen offers (but L is usually enough). I get to keep creep and brake control in my garage and parking spots that way, which is where I hate 1PD.

Only part that's still annoying is the car's transition between regen and friction brakes, which is sometimes grabby down at like 3 MPH just before coming to a complete stop. They still haven't gotten that tuning right.

Didn't realize L gear could be used to Regen more.

Discover your Ford virtual tech did say that 1PD is for convenience.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Is it implicit, then, to say that:

• L mode only engages/amplifies motor regen when the car is moving without pressure on the accelerator
• 1PD engages motor regen and a blended level of friction braking as well
• In Unbridled mode the regen recovery is ~equal to the other two modes, but may not be felt in the seat of the pants in operation.

I don’t believe the last one is correct. Unbridled drive mode creates a higher deceleration rate by increasing the rate of regeneration. Therefore, the regeneration rates higher than in the other two modes and it is definitely felt in the seat of the pants, to the point that the other two modes freak me out when the car decides to change drive modes after an update. The feeling of deceleration when L is selected is definitely more similar to Unbridled than either of the other two drive modes. ??

 

[HuntingPudel]

Didn't realize L gear could be used to Regen more.
<SNIP>

A number of the forum members routinely use “L” on the selector to increase deceleration rate/increase regeneration. Since I prefer the shocks set tighter and less steering assistance, I just use Unbridled drive mode. ?‍??

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I will need to edit my OP because I cannot feel the regen difference between Whisper and Unbridled in 1PD. Have you measured a difference? I will do some more testing myself to see if I can get 100 kW in 1PD. I could not get that in Whisper.

Quite some time ago, I drove the 7 mile descent near us 3 times in a row. All were in engage. The first was with adaptive cruise control on with the speed set at limit plus 7. The second was 1pd and the third was 2pd. For 2pd I attempted to not exceed the speed limit +7 (67 mph). There are obvious variables in this as it was done on the only cross-island road and it has a wide variety of traffic including vehicles descending at speed limit minus 35 mph.

Starting the first run the car was at 74% soc and finished at the western terminus of the DKI at 82%. Yes it has some really steep sections (average slope is over 6%). For 1pd and 2pd I got an increase of 6%. Hardly scientific and I wasn’t using an obd reader as I didn’t have one that worked on the MME at the time. Just interesting tidbits.

Add in what you did and I still believe it’s much ado about nothing. Drive in the mode you prefer.

 

[mkhuffman]

I will try to post some more data about the differences between stopping in 1PD Whisper and 1PD Unbridled, and both compared with and without L. I cannot feel a difference between them while driving so the difference must be in specific use cases like when doing a 70-0 stop as Lee said.

I can't think of a place where can safely do repeated 70-0 tests but I can do slower test stop tests like I did yesterday.

 

[Art]

I have seen so many posts in the forum debating, even arguing, that 1PD or 2PD is the most efficient way to drive. I have long taken the position that you can drive equally efficiently using either method, but I have never seen anyone prove it with real data. So that is what I set out to do.

First off, it is important to understand that in the MME, 1PD works exactly the same way either in Whisper, Engage or Unbridled (mine still has the “d”). So it does not matter, but all my testing was done using Whisper mode.

The main reason I use Whisper in my GT is the way Adaptive Cruise behaves: it is MUCH smoother if the car is in Whisper. And I use Adaptive Cruise a lot, like every time I drive. Switching back and forth from Unbridled to Whisper is too much of a PIA to make it worth it. I can still get 1000 Amps of acceleration just as easily in Whisper as I can in Unbridled, so I am not really missing anything.

To compare regeneration between 1PD and 2 PD I did two different tests.

1. I measured the maximum regeneration I could achieve in each mode.I did this by driving as aggressively as possible, slowing as fast as 1PD could slow without using the brake pedal. In 2PD obviously I had to use the brake pedal to slow down.
2. I did the exact same stop (same distance at the exactly same place in the road) from 50 mph using each mode. I tried very hard to slow down at the same rate in both 1PD and 2PD. That meant in 1PD I had to carefully modulate the go-pedal to slow down gradually to the stoplight while never pressing the brake pedal.

Results Summary

1. 2PD generates a higher level of regeneration to the battery than 1 PD does. Of course if you drive using 1PD, you can also use the brakes, which allows you to increase the regeneration before the friction brakes engage. 1PD is not set to maximum regen, obviously.
2. Both 1PD and 2PD appear to generate exactly the same amount of regeneration when stopping from the same speed and for the same distance.

Results Details - Test 1

The maximum regeneration I could get using 1PD was around 86 kW. The reason the chart below shows 94.76 kW is because I came up on some traffic and had to briefly use the brake pedal. Rather than redo the entire test, I just used it as is. But obviously it isn’t even close to what 2PD can produce. I am sure if I tested more, I could exceed 123.73 kW in 2PD as well. If I were to guess, maybe the limit is around 125 kW? Could it really be a nice round number like that?

Results Details - Test 2

The graphs really speak for themselves mostly. What is interesting is I was able to stop more smoothly using 1PD, as shown in the data. You can see I slowed down very gradually using 1PD, but had less of a smooth ramp in 2PD. People often think they can drive more smoothly using 2PD, but apparently, I can’t.

The regeneration graph shows I got a lot more initial regen in 2PD, but since I slowed more abruptly, I had to back off in order to reach the stoplight. But visually you can tell that the same amount of energy was returned to the battery.

Conclusion

Drive in any mode that makes you happy, but don’t pick a drive mode just because you think it is more efficient. Maybe it is easier for you to drive more efficiently in 1PD or 2PD, but it still comes down to the way you drive and not the drive mode. You can be just as efficient in 1PD as in 2PD. It is just a different way of driving.

Note: this conclusion only applies to the MME. Other car manufacturers may use brake blending differently in different modes, so I would not assume you can repeat this in every BEV. On the other hand, this is how every BEV should behave IMO. So if others do not, it is because they are inferior. Vastly inferior.

Now go out there and do some WOTs! This car is made for fun, not efficiency!

Thanks for the test. I use 1PD and use it because it is makes for a much smoother drive, and I also save on disc pad wear.
This is an advantage for an EV and one of the most enjoyable ones.

 

[smoke20]

This is all new to me probably because I still don't know what is going on in the world of e-propulsion. Question. If I drive around town in 1P mode and never ever touch the brake pedal, are the pads being appreciably used? Put it this way; should I expect more brake dust and shorter pad life when in 2P vs 1P?

 

[mkhuffman]

This is all new to me probably because I still don't know what is going on in the world of e-propulsion. Question. If I drive around town in 1P mode and never ever touch the brake pedal, are the pads being appreciably used? Put it this way; should I expect more brake dust and shorter pad life when in 2P vs 1P?

Brake life should be similar between 1PD and 2PD if you are braking as the same rate in both. I drive using 1PD and rarely touch the brake pedal but the brakes automatically start engaging at around 5 mph to bring the car to a complete stop. The wear in that scenario is very, very small.

 

[Larry Paul]

I have seen so many posts in the forum debating, even arguing, that 1PD or 2PD is the most efficient way to drive. I have long taken the position that you can drive equally efficiently using either method, but I have never seen anyone prove it with real data. So that is what I set out to do.

First off, it is important to understand that in the MME, 1PD works exactly the same way either in Whisper, Engage or Unbridled (mine still has the “d”). So it does not matter, but all my testing was done using Whisper mode.

The main reason I use Whisper in my GT is the way Adaptive Cruise behaves: it is MUCH smoother if the car is in Whisper. And I use Adaptive Cruise a lot, like every time I drive. Switching back and forth from Unbridled to Whisper is too much of a PIA to make it worth it. I can still get 1000 Amps of acceleration just as easily in Whisper as I can in Unbridled, so I am not really missing anything.

To compare regeneration between 1PD and 2 PD I did two different tests.

1. I measured the maximum regeneration I could achieve in each mode.I did this by driving as aggressively as possible, slowing as fast as 1PD could slow without using the brake pedal. In 2PD obviously I had to use the brake pedal to slow down.
2. I did the exact same stop (same distance at the exactly same place in the road) from 50 mph using each mode. I tried very hard to slow down at the same rate in both 1PD and 2PD. That meant in 1PD I had to carefully modulate the go-pedal to slow down gradually to the stoplight while never pressing the brake pedal.

Results Summary

1. 2PD generates a higher level of regeneration to the battery than 1 PD does. Of course if you drive using 1PD, you can also use the brakes, which allows you to increase the regeneration before the friction brakes engage. 1PD is not set to maximum regen, obviously.
2. Both 1PD and 2PD appear to generate exactly the same amount of regeneration when stopping from the same speed and for the same distance.

Results Details - Test 1

The maximum regeneration I could get using 1PD was around 86 kW. The reason the chart below shows 94.76 kW is because I came up on some traffic and had to briefly use the brake pedal. Rather than redo the entire test, I just used it as is. But obviously it isn’t even close to what 2PD can produce. I am sure if I tested more, I could exceed 123.73 kW in 2PD as well. If I were to guess, maybe the limit is around 125 kW? Could it really be a nice round number like that?

Results Details - Test 2

The graphs really speak for themselves mostly. What is interesting is I was able to stop more smoothly using 1PD, as shown in the data. You can see I slowed down very gradually using 1PD, but had less of a smooth ramp in 2PD. People often think they can drive more smoothly using 2PD, but apparently, I can’t.

The regeneration graph shows I got a lot more initial regen in 2PD, but since I slowed more abruptly, I had to back off in order to reach the stoplight. But visually you can tell that the same amount of energy was returned to the battery.

Conclusion

Drive in any mode that makes you happy, but don’t pick a drive mode just because you think it is more efficient. Maybe it is easier for you to drive more efficiently in 1PD or 2PD, but it still comes down to the way you drive and not the drive mode. You can be just as efficient in 1PD as in 2PD. It is just a different way of driving.

Note: this conclusion only applies to the MME. Other car manufacturers may use brake blending differently in different modes, so I would not assume you can repeat this in every BEV. On the other hand, this is how every BEV should behave IMO. So if others do not, it is because they are inferior. Vastly inferior.

Now go out there and do some WOTs! This car is made for fun, not efficiency!

Excellent report. Glad to know it is really the driver's driving style that makes it efficient or not.

Regarding: "...And I use Adaptive Cruise a lot, like every time I drive."

I have to says: Me too in my GTPE. Not just on highways-almost all driving outside of the immediate neighborhood. As soon as I hit the main road. As I approached stopped traffic I drive with my finger on the cancel/resume button and then I control my slow down with the "accelerator pedal" before the car realizes that the traffic is stopped to make my deceleration smoother and when I get close to matching speed or close enough that the car will manage it, I press resume. Rarely touch the brake pedal.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Brake life should be similar between 1PD and 2PD if you are braking as the same rate in both. I drive using 1PD and rarely touch the brake pedal but the brakes automatically start engaging at around 5 mph to bring the car to a complete stop. The wear in that scenario is very, very small.

Yep, and I drive in 2PD/Unbridled. When I have the room I just let Unbridled bring me to about 4mph and then use the friction brakes to stop and hold. Same thing, different ways of going about it. ??

 

[mkhuffman]

Excellent report. Glad to know it is really the driver's driving style that makes it efficient or not.

Regarding: "...And I use Adaptive Cruise a lot, like every time I drive."

I have to says: Me too in my GTPE. Not just on highways-almost all driving outside of the immediate neighborhood. As soon as I hit the main road. As I approached stopped traffic I drive with my finger on the cancel/resume button and then I control my slow down with the "accelerator pedal" before the car realizes that the traffic is stopped to make my deceleration smoother and when I get close to matching speed or close enough that the car will manage it, I press resume. Rarely touch the brake pedal.

That is exactly what I do. Great minds! Well, at least yours is. Mine is wearing out ...

 

[dbsb3233]

L on the “gear selector” isn’t a gear. It just simulates a lower gear by increasing electric motor resistance (through increased regeneration). It’s not noticeable to select “L” when the car is in Unbridled, but it is in the other two drive modes. I only drive in Unbridled, so I can’t say that regeneration resistance is any different to drive in one of the other modes with the selector in “L.” ?‍?

That could be (roughly equal to Unbridled regen). I just like the easier steering wheel tension and the wider go-pedal play where I can apply more finesse that Whisper offers.

I wish Ford would just let us select regen level, pedal play, and steering tension independently.

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