Do you think it’s likely that the 5 second acceleration limit will change?

[Mach1E]

I think, and this is anecdotal, of course, but my dealer, which is a small local dealer, has probably worked on about 100 HVJB failures alone at this point. There have probably been over a thousand HVJB failures, but that has almost nothing to do with this 5 second limitation on throttle events. Evidence is that RWD/AWD Selects and Premiums (that don’t have the limitation) have had this happen, and the HVJB failure has been well documented to be rather independent of the 5 second throttle limitation.

Listen, I’m tired of the reasoning that has been provided here, because it’s a circular argument, with no one providing data, only supposition.

Ford really should fix the issue, and yes, it’s a fix, for a problem, it’s not a “throw the hands in the air, move on to next gen” sort of thing. The vehicle is awesome as a daily driver, but it’s been, and continues to be, misrepresented as being a performance EV.

Folks who bought the car who care about performance have been disappointed. Almost every notable review of the GTPE has mentioned the limitation after 5 seconds.

I think Ford will have to do something, because soon, this car will get romped by rather basic, pedestrian EV models that are coming out in the next few years, performance wise.

It’s not a performance EV, if it’s power gets cut to almost half after 5 seconds.

It’s not a performance EV if a non-performance EV (TMYLR) can beat it in a quarter mile. And it costs about 20k less.

A Kia, for Christ’s sake, absolutely romps on it. Costs about 10k less.

A Volvo, will likely smash on it (EX30 AWD) in a quarter mile. Expected to cost about 20-25 k less.

If you have felt the limitation after 5 seconds of throttle, it’s very very significant.

Exactly.

And the problem with the lack of actual data (only theories) is that there are no solutions.

If there actually IS a “weak link” in the GT, then I would pay for the aftermarket to replace it, and tune us for full power.

Or Shelby could do the same. Or Ford.

And again, I’m not convinced there really is a specific weak leak. Until we break something……..

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[AKgrampy]

And they have nothing to do with the 5 second GT limit.

If it did, only GTs would fail.

The HVJB was a poor design that came in all Mach Es and something Ford figured out later (thus the recall).

The reason they fail is overheating of the contacts which was my point. Supposedly, and I am not claiming this to be true, more fail on GT’s. If you look at data others have collected many fail during high speed/acceleration or at least give the SVS warning. GT’s deliver more power than other models and it is intuitive that they would heat electrical components up at a faster rate than non GT models. I have no idea if the 5 sec limit could be extended to 7, 8, 10, or however long without causing damage; however, when a limit is slapped on like this I have to believe there is a good reason and personally I do not need charbroiled components to prove the battery/bus is unable to handle the amps.

 

[Mach1E]

The reason they fail is overheating of the contacts which was my point. Supposedly, and I am not claiming this to be true, more fail on GT’s. If you look at data others have collected many fail during high speed/acceleration or at least give the SVS warning. GT’s deliver more power than other models and it is intuitive that they would heat electrical components up at a faster rate than non GT models. I have no idea if the 5 sec limit could be extended to 7, 8, 10, or however long without causing damage; however, when a limit is slapped on like this I have to believe there is a good reason and personally I do not need charbroiled components to prove the battery/bus is unable to handle the amps.

Again, the 5 second limit and HVJB issues are totally unrelated.

The limit came waaaaaaaaaay before Ford knew about the HVJB issue.

But YES, you do “need charbroiled components to prove” they can’t handle the amps!!!

How else would you prove it???

Do you drive over a bridge and see a “10 ton weight limit” and just assume an 11 ton truck will collapse the bridge?

They actually do testing and lots of math and stress limits to determine what the actual limit should be.

The problem is we seem to have gotten a 5 ton limit sticker randomly put on our bridge with no clue what the safe limit really is.

Yes, we all know there is a limit. But there seems to be zero knowledge of the real limit. And again, HVJB is an unrelated issue.

 

[AKgrampy]

Again, the 5 second limit and HVJB issues are totally unrelated.

The limit came waaaaaaaaaay before Ford knew about the HVJB issue.

But YES, you do “need charbroiled components to prove” they can’t handle the amps!!!

How else would you prove it???

Do you drive over a bridge and see a “10 ton weight limit” and just assume an 11 ton truck will collapse the bridge?

They actually do testing and lots of math and stress limits to determine what the actual limit should be.

The problem is we seem to have gotten a 5 ton limit sticker randomly put on our bridge with no clue what the safe limit really is.

Yes, we all know there is a limit. But there seems to be zero knowledge of the real limit. And again, HVJB is an unrelated issue.

I should not drag this on but why are the HVBJB’s failing? They are part of the battery system.

 

[Mach1E]

I should not drag this on but why are the HVBJB’s failing? They are part of the battery system.

Bad design and 1-2% are defective. The contactors either weld open or weld shut. Horsepower, acceleration, etc in the GT don’t cause the problem. Even a RWD SR can have a bad HVJB.

Ford fixed the design and made them more durable on the 2023 models………. which still have the 5 second limit.

Again, unrelated to the topic at hand.

How much power can the hardware of the Mach E take? Well if you’re the unlucky 2% with a defective HVJB……. Not even 266 hp.

But for the other 98% of us, or those with a 2023……… no need to talk about the HVJB. But we don’t know if there’s another weak link.

 

[BigMach-E]

I think it’s safe to say that there are other weak bits, the issue is how weak and how many? And, can they withstand power draw needed the full 500+ HP of both motors running in tandem for 6 seconds seconds? 7? 8? We know they can handle it for 5 seconds, because that’s the stupid limit in play.

 

[AKgrampy]

Bad design and 1-2% are defective. The contactors either weld open or weld shut. Horsepower, acceleration, etc in the GT don’t cause the problem. Even a RWD SR can have a bad HVJB.

Ford fixed the design and made them more durable on the 2023 models………. which still have the 5 second limit.

Again, unrelated to the topic at hand.

How much power can the hardware of the Mach E take? Well if you’re the unlucky 2% with a defective HVJB……. Not even 266 hp.

But for the other 98% of us, or those with a 2023……… no need to talk about the HVJB. But we don’t know if there’s another weak link.

My point is the HVBJB is part of the battery pack and we know for a fact it fails from high current when the contacts are not built to spec. I do not know this but I would bet that operation above the 5 second limit may damage even the new unit. Why would you assert the 5 second is not to also prevent damage to the HVBJB when it is proven that sustained high current will make it fail? The bottom line though is you are correct in that we really do not know for sure the why of the limit was imposed. I guess if someone was really interested they could get the dimensions of the bus bar and see what it is rated for. I did look at the contact ratings once for the HVBJB and I do recall it’s continuous rating is below the full output of the battery but I do not recall the time limit.

 

[Mach1E]

My point is the HVBJB is part of the battery pack and we know for a fact it fails from high current when the contacts are not built to spec. I do not know this but I would bet that operation above the 5 second limit may damage even the new unit. Why would you assert the 5 second is not to also prevent damage to the HVBJB when it is proven that sustained high current will make it fail? The bottom line though is you are correct in that we really do not know for sure the why of the limit was imposed. I guess if someone was really interested they could get the dimensions of the bus bar and see what it is rated for. I did look at the contact ratings once for the HVBJB and I do recall it’s continuous rating is below the full output of the battery but I do not recall the time limit.

Of course we are both speculating.

But my theory on the HVJB and the 5 second limit goes back to the same points I’ve made:

1. Timeline. The limit came way before Ford knew it was an issue.

2. models. It’s an issue for all of the models, not just the GT.

3. What Ford engineers said on the subject- Temperature sensors- it’s the lack of enough and fast enough sensors. So they slapped the 5 sec limit as a temporary band aid.

Basically even Ford doesn’t know the durability of the components (unless they’ve secretly been testing things without limits).

4. Lack of other component failures on GTs.

If the GT models were breaking things that base models didn’t……. Would be an entirely different story.

But they aren’t.

Do they anecdotally have more HVJB failures? It seems that they are slightly more likely to fail. But we don’t know if that’s due to extra horsepower or just the correlation between GT owners and how they drive (more aggressively than most RWD SR buyers for example).

Definitely and unknown whether It’s correlation or causation.

 

[squirrels2nuts]

no issues here but i haven't even hit 500km and i slam the pedal down all the time?? i usually stop after i've embarrassed the guy i was "racing" off the hop and they blow by me at like 80-100kmph and that way hopefully they get the ticket

 

[Mach1E]

no issues here but i haven't even hit 500km and i slam the pedal down all the time?? i usually stop after i've embarrassed the guy i was "racing" off the hop and they blow by me at like 80-100kmph and that way hopefully they get the ticket

Of course a 5 second limit isn’t an issue if you let off after 5 seconds.

 

[BigMach-E]

Of course a 5 second limit isn’t an issue if you let off after 5 seconds.

But it is if you are on for 4 seconds, let off, and try to punch it again. That’s where you will really experience it.

 

[Bueller]

Honest question: If a GT is cruising along at 80 mph on the freeway and the driver mashes the throttle, how fast will the car be traveling when this limitation sets in?

 

[Mach1E]

Honest question: If a GT is cruising along at 80 mph on the freeway and the driver mashes the throttle, how fast will the car be traveling when this limitation sets in?

Since the limit kicks in at 72 mph…….. it happens before you even start that experiment.

You can see it in terms of grey bars on the power meter. Cruising at 80 you’ll have 3-4 minimum even at full charge and warm weather.

I even tested the 72 mph on a tall bridge, was under that speed at the top, put the car in neutral, gravity accelerated to 72 mph and the first gray bar showed up. It’s definitely a programmed in hard limit.

 

[BigMach-E]

Since the limit kicks in at 72 mph…….. it happens before you even start that experiment.

You can see it in terms of grey bars on the power meter. Cruising at 80 you’ll have 3-4 minimum even at full charge and warm weather.

I even tested the 72 mph on a tall bridge, was under that speed at the top, put the car in neutral, gravity accelerated to 72 mph and the first gray bar showed up. It’s definitely a programmed in hard limit.

And it doesn’t make sense. It’s done out of an over abundance of caution, that makes people who bought the GTPE furious that the spent this much on a car that is basically pointlessly neutered.

It makes folks like me who care about performance wonder why Ford would market a car like this, that doesn’t even come close to fulfilling the hype.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great daily driver, but so is the MME Select AWD, so is the Premium, so are a lot of EVs. The GTPE is supposed to be about performance, and it’s a disappointment in that regard. Ford could have done better, and if they can’t make the car do 8+ seconds of full power…well, you lost me for the next EV, and the next, and the next.

 

[Mach1E]

And it doesn’t make sense. It’s done out of an over abundance of caution, that makes people who bought the GTPE furious that the spent this much on a car that is basically pointlessly neutered.

It makes folks like me who care about performance wonder why Ford would market a car like this, that doesn’t even come close to fulfilling the hype.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great daily driver, but so is the MME Select AWD, so is the Premium, so are a lot of EVs. The GTPE is supposed to be about performance, and it’s a disappointment in that regard. Ford could have done better, and if they can’t make the car do 8+ seconds of full power…well, you lost me for the next EV, and the next, and the next.

Yup.

Possibly the saddest part is it could be fixed by adding a few more temp sensors and have the power limited by actual thermal feedback rather than some arbitrary hard coded limits.

Literally every other performance aspect of this car is no short of amazing.

Handling, braking, low end acceleration…….. all among the fastest SUVs ever built!

For example, compare my 2021 GTPE to two of the best performing SUVs on the planet-

2021 Mercedes GLE63 S and 2021 BMW X5 M competition.

I beat both to 60 mph.
I pull more G on the skidpad (despite having worse tires)
And I stop in a shorter distance (60-0, also with worse tires)
They both cost around $115k.

Give me some top end acceleration and it’s game over.

But our Achilles heel is the only thing any review talks about.

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